from Hacker News

Ancient Chesapeake site challenges timeline of humans in the Americas

by pge on 5/19/24, 11:48 AM with 50 comments

  • by twarge on 5/20/24, 10:29 AM

    Linguistic evidence of the same timeline.

    https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=64074

    The controversy claimed is entirely overblown. Longer timelines for migration have been discussed widely for quite a while.

    I completely understand not wanting to bother with peer review but generally your peers want a good result to be published.

  • by lebuffon on 5/20/24, 2:38 PM

    There is an elephant in the room in my opinion on the matter of a migration to N. America across the atlantic, however I have not read a definitive evaluation of this piece of evidence.

    There exists, mostly in the northern tribes (Ojibwa 27%, Sioux 15%) mtDNA of the X type. As I understand it the other highest group in the world is the Druze population in the Levant. (27%) What it all means is above my pay grade.

    Background https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_X_(mtDNA)

  • by brudgers on 5/19/24, 4:40 PM

  • by DoreenMichele on 5/20/24, 4:48 PM

    A bigger issue may be the site’s rapid erosion. Most of the artifacts were found after they’d fallen out of the bluff, which means their place in the geologic timeline is obscured. Nine artifacts were found in place, and only three were able to be dated using charcoal flecks found next to them.

    Hat's off to him for publishing it. There are currently serious problems with the peer reviewed publishing process, starting with the fact that it was born in an era when the scientific world was smaller and people reviewing your work may have known you or someone vouching for you and this is generally no longer true.

    But we do rely heavily on where in a sediment layer a thing was found to try to date it, so with that piece missing for most items, arguing about the defects of the power review process is kind of moot. He should probably work at addressing this issue and maybe that's the piece he doesn't really want to wrestle to the ground to begin with in the peer review process.

  • by aksss on 5/20/24, 8:32 AM

    > hunting big animals like mammoths and giant sloths, driving them into extinction as they went.

    Interesting read, and above quote shouldn’t distract from it, but I thought that theory was abandoned, or at least certainly not considered so likely that it would be presumed by default anymore.

  • by bloopernova on 5/20/24, 5:20 PM

    What was the sea level at 20K years ago?

    I was wondering whether more exposed land would have made much difference to migration routes?

    The DNA record doesn't show any migrations across the north or south Atlantic Ocean, correct? Is there any evidence of humans using routes other than the Bering Strait?

  • by khaki54 on 5/20/24, 2:00 PM

    Is the controversy that the "Clovis" (who are the genetic ancestors of Native American or indigenous) were not actually the first people in North America?

    Did the Clovis conquer or wipe out the pre-Clovis people?

  • by ChrisMarshallNY on 5/20/24, 9:35 AM

    Heh. I like “Clovis police.”

    That’s a problem in any community; gatekeepers.

    But, at the same time, as Sagan mentioned, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. A lot of completely batshit stuff pops up, all the time.

  • by WalterBright on 5/20/24, 4:41 PM

    Oh my God. I'm back. I'm home. All the time, it was... We finally really did it. You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!

    https://www.pinterest.com/pin/animated-gifs--365917538457473...

  • by mseepgood on 5/20/24, 12:29 PM

    I read "ancient cheapskate site" and was imagining a price comparison website from the early 2000s.

  • by datahack on 5/20/24, 8:51 AM

    “Ancient Chesapeake site forces paleontologists to admit they were wrong after denying clear evidence of much older occupation across the Americas for decades.”

    Fixed the headline boss!

  • by maykef on 5/20/24, 1:05 PM

    Again????

    American archaeologists and their desire for fame... Dig up a hole, find the stone tools that evidence human occupation, draw the stratigraphy, do radiocarbon dating, publish in a reputed journal (not your MySpace), rinse and repeat...