by alexc05 on 2/1/22, 3:23 PM with 619 comments
by Spinnaker_ on 2/1/22, 3:53 PM
"Hey ____. Before we move forward, can you provide me with the company name, a job description, and the expected compensation. Regards"
by anonygler on 2/1/22, 4:02 PM
I've "doubled" my salary plenty of times through this policy.
But the real secret sauce is referrals. Companies always prioritize a strong referral, ignoring mediocre interview performance, and will even skip the reference checks so I don't have to bug my network.
by DebtDeflation on 2/1/22, 4:50 PM
Compensation is the first thing I bring up now. "I currently make X salary, Y annual bonus, and Z equity. This position will need to exceed all 3 by at least 20% before I even consider it. Does that sound doable? If not, let's not waste any more of each other's time."
Way too many lowballers out there.
by qubyte on 2/1/22, 4:35 PM
Please do not contact me about cryptocurrency, blockchain, NFTs, or associated technologies.
by tgtweak on 2/1/22, 9:25 PM
I entertained a reference check call by a recruiting firm (not standard but he was a good coworker and it was a serious position with a serious company). The interview was normal and standard fare except the last question which I found off-putting and dishonest: "Are you looking to fill any positions?"
Although I was, it's not the kind of professionalism I expect from any company representing mine so I politely declined and ended it there. My friend got the job and all's well that ends well.
Fast forward 3 months and I get cold called by the same company asking me if I would consider a position at XYZ inc (new company, unrelated to the first).
I was blown away that a company would think this is acceptable, and that information given for reference checks by employees are somehow automatically made into leads owned by the recruiting company. I escalated to legal at serious company and explained in no unclear manner how serious of a matter this was, to which they terminated the hiring agreement over.
So just a reminder please vet your recruiting companies before you mandate them to represent your company.
by mikece on 2/1/22, 4:38 PM
by mywittyname on 2/1/22, 5:27 PM
I could make a full time job out of replying to recruiters, because I get probably 100 "opportunities" a day. Most of them have never actually read my resume, or they are working off of a 10 year old copy that was bought from a data broker. And probably 10k other people get that same exact email, so even if I did respond, the odds are bad.
If a founder of a company reaches out with a thoughtful message, there's a 100% chance I'll respond, even to decline. If an in-house recruiter for a copy reaches out, and shows that they understand why I'd be a good fit, there's a 100% chance I'll look, and a 50% chance I'll respond.
I did get my current role by doing roughly what the article states. A recruiter for a startup reached out to me, explaining what the role was and why I might be a good fit. I interviewed with an intent to only leave for a 50%+ salary bump, and they offered 80%+ and equity, so I left. That being said, I ignored 99.9% of the other recruiters who reached out.
by ChrisMarshallNY on 2/1/22, 5:53 PM
When I was younger, recruiters would woo you, and would act as your advocate. They would sing your praises (sometimes, with a bit of “embellishment”) to the prospective employer.
They also made quite a bit of money.
I suspect that outfits like monster.com devastated the “concierge” type of recruiter.
Also, there were contractor specialists. They acted almost exactly like talent agents, getting a commission, whenever they successfully found a contract for their clients. I dealt with a number of them (as an employer) over the years.
I think the “agents” are a thing of the past. Not exactly sure what killed them.
These days, everybody, in every profession, is obsessed with scale. Lots of small numbers, as opposed to a few big ones.
I assume that “self-service” sites have accelerated that transition.
If anyone ever saw the movie Jerry Maguire, it sort of laments the same kind of metamorphosis, in the sports agent field.
I have been rather shocked at the uncouth behavior that has been directed my way, by recruiters. I’ve been told that it’s because I’m older. They haven’t done or said anything to dissuade me from that point of view.
Dealing with today’s recruiters was one of a number of reasons that I threw in the towel on looking for work, and just accepted that I’m in early retirement.
In any case, I am sad to see the change, but folks seem OK with the state of the industry, so I guess that it’s really just sour grapes, on my part.
by beeskneecaps on 2/1/22, 4:39 PM
* are a part of a large firm
* use multiple fonts, sizes, or any color in their emails
* send an email _and_ an InMail
* text or call you
* jokingly or seriously refer to themselves as a stalker
* automatically substitute in your skills or past company name
* ask for your resume when they can obviously download the LinkedIn pdf
* don’t disclose comp
* don’t disclose the company name
* use tracking pixels or redirect links
* send an automated sequence of follow-up emails (4 follow-ups = bot)
Write them back if they seem like a human! “Not interested at this time, but let’s keep in touch. Thanks for your time” should do.
by __MatrixMan__ on 2/1/22, 4:34 PM
- I'm not interested - They aren't at liberty to talk about the technical details
So I always respond with something like:
> Oh yeah, I'm pretty decent at {language}. But I want to keep growing, so I'm really not interested in writing {very old version of language}. Can you tell me what version they're using?
I figure it's a good balance between "screw off" and bothering with a phone call that won't be fruitful for either of us. It keeps me in their rolodex (in my experience, recruiters have a very high turnover rate--so who knows who they'll be recruiting for tomorrow). Also, I like to imagine that some poor engineer is trying to convince the machine to let him upgrade, and maybe I can help them out, whoever they are, by making the old version seem like a recruiting hazard.
by mabbo on 2/1/22, 5:48 PM
Even the cold-calling, working-for-an-agency, just-wants-10%-of-your-salary recruiters. Most of them are simply nice people who are trying to make a living in a difficult and incredibly competitive business. Some are assholes, no doubt, but just being polite until they prove that they are cost you very little.
I had a recruiter reach out this morning to tell me about great opportunities in <city> with <company>. I don't want to work for that company, ever, for serious ethical reasons. I don't want to move to that city (though it's not a terrible place).
I simply said "Hi <name>, thanks so much for reaching out. I'm not really interested in any new opportunities right now. I'm also planning a fully remote career from now on, so moving to <city> doesn't really work for me. Thanks for reaching out though".
It took 30 seconds. It burned no bridges. It made no presumptions about them and didn't try to harm them back for wasting my time.
If they persist, I'll ask them to please take me off their list and not contact me again- as politely as I can manage.
So far this strategy has proven 100% effective at handling recruiters, but it also makes me feel better because there's no negative emotions involved.
by gitfan86 on 2/1/22, 6:07 PM
A recruiter sent me a detail post about a job. I wrote back and said I was interested. He never responded so I applied to the job online and got it.
4 months later he messages me and says sorry but it looks like the position has been removed.
I didn't write back.
by mizzao on 2/2/22, 5:43 AM
In NYC, this is that dude: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnkeenan/
I send all my friends to him when looking for jobs. He also doesn't lie to you and since he has a technical background, will rarely place anyone in a bad fit. He's literally sent 2nd tier candidates to other recruiters.
It's a rich get richer game and the super-connectors have way more candidates and companies to match, effectively creating their own market. I believe John makes mid 7 digits a year from placements, plus companies love him and candidates keep going back to him for their next job.
Once you have that reputation, it looks like art next to the other 99% of hustling recruiters that are trying to place poor fit candidates into the 3 roles they are "working on".
by lizknope on 2/1/22, 6:49 PM
One time I asked the company who they were recruiting for. They told me the company name and I replied with "I already work there."
This was on LinkedIn where my current employer is on my page and anyone can see it.
by kstrauser on 2/1/22, 5:24 PM
But occasionally I’ll get an email like:
“Hi! I saw from your LinkedIn that you used to do X, but now you’re doing Y. That’s an interesting progression! I’m working with a company who needs people with experience in X who’d rather be doing Y, because they’d like to be on Y. I also see that you’re interested in Z, and you’d be reporting to our CTO who wrote a book about Z. Want to hear more?”
I’m not looking, but I send them a nice reply and remember their names. If I were looking, that’s the kind of recruiter I’d want to talk to.
by mv4 on 2/1/22, 8:26 PM
Just state clearly what kind of information you need in order to continue the conversation (or not). Even a simple "what's the pay like" would be more effective.
by jen20 on 2/1/22, 8:34 PM
Anyone who has ever experienced third party recruiters in the UK will be nodding their head along after just the first few paragraphs...
[1]: https://gist.github.com/CumpsD/696599d1bd4cd472a056586967293...
by duxup on 2/1/22, 3:55 PM
I don't have time ... the volume of messages is too high, and the amount of 'legitimate' inquiries are too low. And the odds of getting ghosted by the recruiter too high.
If they're a recruiter from a company that I know and they WORK FOR that company, I'll respond.
Having said that I think that is a good article and I really like that email.
by cletus on 2/1/22, 4:50 PM
Here's why: by having a template that he just copy-pastes. This is extremely low effort and will filter out a lot of recruiters. I also agree with working with company recruiters over third-party recruiters.
The first thing many recruiters will want to do is "hop on a call". Resist this urge. In fact, don't even give them your phone number. Force them to use email to contact you. A phone call is a good way of wasting your time. If you actually need to call them on the phone, call them.
There are lots of techniques recruiters will use to waste your time. One common one is if pressed on compensation range you'll get the answer that it's "competitive".
Use a template like this to simply filter out time-wasters. If they want to get on a call, resist giving concrete details or otherwise just give you bad vibes, just stop responding. They can't call you. They don't have your number. Move on.
by k__ on 2/1/22, 4:10 PM
by dokka on 2/1/22, 8:25 PM
by gwbas1c on 2/1/22, 4:27 PM
Recently, I've been solicited for jobs where it was clear that the recruiter never looked at my resume. (I'm a software engineer, and the roles had nothing to do with software engineering.) I flagged these as SPAM.
Reading resumes is work. Reading job openings is work. When a recruiter spams a job opening without screening the recipients, they're just trying to push their work onto strangers.
by klaudioz on 2/1/22, 5:18 PM
I just put a greek character on my name or add an emoticon, so I got a lot of messages starting with:
"Dear name ..
So, it's safe to ignore the message. Even when probably I'm not interested I used to reply with a template message, but I won't waste 30 seconds with a bot.
by kache_ on 2/1/22, 3:44 PM
by eatonphil on 2/1/22, 4:03 PM
by thomasfromcdnjs on 2/1/22, 3:45 PM
by DevToRecruiter on 2/2/22, 12:00 AM
There are two types of recruiters. Relationship based recruiters and “numbers game” recruiters.
As a recruiter that works primarily with programmers I can usually tell within moments of meeting another recruiter which type they are.
Relationship based recruiters can be a huge asset to your career.
Here are a couple tips
1. A relationship based recruiter is almost never a general recruiter, they specialize in a specific industry. 2. The best type of recruiter is one that has intimate knowledge of your field. So ask probing questions. If they know the jargon and that’s it, pass.
by rendall on 2/1/22, 9:20 PM
We do not conduct fake interviews
We will not ask you for references unless you are being considered for a job
We will give you feedback the moment we get it from our customer
etc.
Do I really have to "not ignore" this recruiter?
by eez0 on 2/1/22, 6:16 PM
I never work with external recruiters (staffing agencies)I have made the exception three times, and all of them ended with a poor experience, basically repeating the same information over and over again between them and the people from the actual company.
by not2b on 2/1/22, 7:13 PM
In some cases going through a recruiter is a guarantee that you won't get a position, because a third-party recruiter tries to sell you to a company that has its own recruiters and is unwilling to pay the third-party recruiter's fee.
by Tehchops on 2/1/22, 4:56 PM
However...
> Can you send along the company name, a job description and, total compensation details for the role you’re reaching out in reference to?
Should be table stakes. I've started having to walk away from any recruiter that insists on a 15 minute call without providing these details up front. I wish there was some collective awareness around the fact that if someone took a 15 min call with every recruiter ping they got, they'd be on the phone 5-8 hours a day.
by kaydub on 2/1/22, 7:44 PM
My skills are in demand. When I want a new job I'll reach out for it. It'll be there.
by yalogin on 2/2/22, 2:15 AM
by serverholic on 2/1/22, 3:43 PM
by sebastianconcpt on 2/1/22, 5:05 PM
Thanks for reaching out. I'm okay to travel to spend a week to work together every now and then but I'm working remote only and permanently from X1-Country and I'd only be interested in opportunities with compensations around X2 plus benefits and if I like their tech stack. Let me know when you have something that sounds like a match for that. Thanks again.
by dbg31415 on 2/1/22, 5:01 PM
I've seen so many shady tricks pulled by recruiters. I'm sure it goes both ways, but never forget the recruiter isn't in the business of helping you, they're in the business of helping the people who pay them.
Seen recruiters low-ball staff, or tell the person that they weren't as good as other candidates... "but if you lower your day rate to be more aligned with your junior-level skills..." So when the person shows up, they feel deflated since they think we thought they were junior... but in fact, we loved them and just didn't have enough budget to hire them at the right rate -- and the recruiter helped us get their rates down because at the end of the day the recruiter only cared about putting seats in chairs for us.
Seen recruiters spam over candidates without so much as doing a basic screening interview. "Oh yeah, he's great... he knows JavaScript and English..." and they're literally just looking at the poor guy's LinkedIn and they haven't ever spoken with him past a few copy-paste emails. It's a numbers game to them. They don't want you, as the person paying them, to ever feel like their shelves are empty.
Seen recruiters promise people visas along with the offer letter... then for whatever reason, if the job shifts, the recruiters just cancel the contract and the person would get deported. Saw this in Sydney A LOT. The recruiters and staffing agencies don't care at all what happens to the person, as long as they get a commission. They lie and over-promise, and sell-sell-sell... and even if they only have a 3-month contract they'll promise someone a year, then just switch it last minute or have a cancellation clause.
As someone who worked for a Digital Agency where we hired a lot of people through recruiters... the number of times some poor bloke would come up to me and be like, "So... 3 months probation then I'm full time? That's what the recruiter said... now you can get me a visa and I'll be able to bring my wife over here too?" and I'd have to be like, "Yeah sorry, Johnny... this was just a 3-month gig." Had one guy, "But I gave up my family's visa for this... the recruiter promised me higher pay and that you'd take over my visa..." Felt awful. And the poor guy almost certainly had to leave Sydney when the job was done.
Worse... my GM wouldn't let me fire that recruiter. "They give us the best rates..." Was all so shady. Left me with the solid impression that these people were all just bottom feeders. Willing to do anything to make a buck that day.
by pjc50 on 2/1/22, 3:58 PM
by themeiguoren on 2/1/22, 11:55 PM
by 908B64B197 on 2/1/22, 6:40 PM
There's 3 types/market for recruiters and they almost never overlap. The first are "body shop style" recruiters. It's basically a numbers game where they try to cold-call as much people with githubs/linkedin or blogs that reference programming. They don't know programming (not even what's the difference between languages or front-end/back-end) and are looking for a list of buzzwords. They'll send copy-pasted messages (you can tell because it references tech you never used or never even claimed to have used). If you respond (and really you shouldn't) you won't be able to get any relevant information about the position because... they don't have it. These recruiters are often contracted by external firms in "best value countries" and are given canned response to message you. That's probably what the author encountered.
Second type are professional recruiters. Their salary is by commissions will often be a percentage of your salary. They are knowledgeable about programming and tech (often former engineers who wanted a break from coding!). They typically are looking to match specific profiles to specific jobs at client companies. This goes all the way to recruiters specialized in C-Suite executives (and you can picture the commission finding a CEO will bring in). Their messages will be personalized and you shouldn't hesitate to reply back even if you aren't looking for a job. They know that most great software engineers are almost never openly looking for a job so their goal is to be on good terms with a large number of talented developers so that the minute they start looking for a job they can match them with positions. You'll know when you encounter one.
Third type is basically referrals. A players attract A players, smart companies know it. Make sure your referral bonus is a percentage of total comp. It's probably the most effective way of recruiting (it has an insane signal to noise ratio). But you only get access to that type of network by... bringing value and being part of it in the first place!
by CoastalCoder on 2/1/22, 4:35 PM
P.S. I would like to give credit to one recruiter though: Markus Edmunds. He'd been recruiting for a particular technical specialty a year or two ago. He really got to know my preferences and strengths, and never ghosted me when individual companies passed on my resume. I know that's indistinguishable from him acting in enlightened self-interest, but it was still a productive relationship.
by rharb on 2/1/22, 4:34 PM
He responded, seemingly offended, that I "have a Gmail account, a very public account" that his "team of Search Engineers" found.
by karboosx on 2/1/22, 5:13 PM
In addition I made small control question, for example: "Whats the first letter on my LinkedIn description?".
That way I know I don't talk with a bot and they really read my profile.
by junon on 2/1/22, 8:35 PM
No thanks. Tell me about the position first. Then I'll tell you if I'm interested.
by ghostoftiber on 2/1/22, 6:14 PM
If it sounds remotely interesting, I might send them an email back. The exception is AWS/Azure/Google which is heavily recruiting for TAMs and they're having a heck of a time filling the seats and keeping them filled. If they're $MAJOR_CLOUD_PROVIDER I always ask them if its for a TAM or similar role up front.
I have a small blacklist of companies too - folks I know who are going to go through the entire interview process and it doesn't matter whats said because they're going to lowball the crap out of people. I don't want to work for bottom-feeders.
The "good offers" I get typically come from someone who has seen an open source contribution from me, or someone I know from consulting. If you find yourself jammed up in your career and you can't find that next lillypad, try consulting to build up your connections. It's a good way to get the inside story at companies, and also if you find a company you really like, it's very possible to arrange something so that they hire you on some split between your consulting rate and your pay rate so you and them win. Check your employment contract first, local laws, etc. Check my profile for an email to send your resume to if you want to chat.
by anthuswilliams on 2/2/22, 3:05 AM
So, serious question: why do you have a LinkedIn account? I know there is theoretical benefit in maintaining connections to professional acquaintances, but in sticking to email and a few alumni Slack channels, I have never felt limited in that department. What is the benefit of your LinkedIn account and why do you keep it?
by throwaway202202 on 2/1/22, 4:00 PM
I left computers to move to investments, make 500k+/year but I envy the stability and choices that developers have. If I lost my job tomorrow it is not clear I could find another similar job. You have lots of options.
It looks like the situation will remain this way during our lifetimes (you never know), but you should at least appreciate it.
by JohnWhigham on 2/1/22, 4:08 PM
by osrec on 2/1/22, 11:18 PM
I really don't understand why we're expected to trust the largest transactions in our lives (house/job) to individuals with no real qualifications to execute those transactions. It feels kinda dumb.
by jedberg on 2/1/22, 6:13 PM
That way you can throw away any message that doesn't start with the answer because you know it was a bulk mail and they didn't actually read your profile.
by hunglee2 on 2/2/22, 8:02 AM
it may surprise some of the folks on HN - which as a tech / engineering audience, are usually those candidates - that a lot of recruiters actually care a great deal about 'candidate experience', as they have a similar calculus - low effort to create a positive experience, bank it as possible gain later down the line.
Unfortunately those recruiters are let down by significant minority of noisy bad actors who are outside their control. Anyone can 'become' a recruiter - you can do it right away, right now - and therefore there is no QA on who gets to do that job or how that job gets done.
by Gannyn on 2/2/22, 6:17 PM
Let me just start with agency vs. in-house recruiter types. In-house isn't always practical for employers so agency has traditionally been the fall back when flexibly is needed. Not anymore!
Freelance recruiters are the solution because they have authorization to represent the employers' brand and are being paid for the service they provide.
Agency recruiters are not authorized to represent brand (except retained) and only get paid if they make the placement so they don't disclose the brand until they've got their "fish on a hook".
My theory is the gig-economy can fix this while providing more value to the employer, recruiter and the candidate (transparency goes a long way). For any hiring managers reading out there, when a flexible option is needed, freelance recruiters offer a much better option.
I agree that it's a good practice to build relationships with recruiters. I also think it's important to do business with the companies where you agree with their practices, methods and principles.
Why support a bad practice so go ahead and ghost agencies.....Cyber and many others like them were built for hiring practices in the 70's or 80's (think kelly secretaries/ temporaries). Today's talent market is much more sophisticated.
Check-out the HireScale Recruiter Marketplace. Follow our community to interact with in-house and freelance recruiters only(branded to the employer 100% of the time)
Website: https://www.hirescale.io/ LinkedIN: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hirescaletalent
Gannyn
by hatware on 2/1/22, 5:32 PM
by dsr_ on 2/1/22, 3:50 PM
None of that applies to an in-house recruiter. Someone who works in HR for the hiring company, directly, may have years of experience, good training, and have a good idea of what the hiring manager is looking for. You shouldn't ignore them, although if you're entirely happy you should have a short message prepared -- "Thanks for thinking of me. I'm happy with my current position, but you never know what the future holds. Feel free to check in with me again in six months or so."
TL;DR: reputation counts.
by abledon on 2/1/22, 3:43 PM
by gadders on 2/1/22, 4:38 PM
I'm in the UK and I just looked at my latest linkedin recruiter message. They told me the company type, the role, the skills they were looking for. An accurate enough description to make me think it was a real role. They didn't include the rate, but that would have been my next question if I had been interested.
If I'm not interested in the role, I normally reply with "Thank you for thinking of me but it's not right for me because [reason]. Good luck in your search." I might even refer them on to a friend if I know one that fits the requirement and may be looking.
by atum47 on 2/1/22, 4:31 PM
I was coming back from the south of the country to my city, a long drive, and I received a whatsapp message from a recruiter telling me about an opportunity, since I was fresh out of college looking for a job, I stopped the car to talk to them, only to find out they won't respond you right away. I only got a answer from this person like 3 days later.
by dogman144 on 2/1/22, 4:23 PM
by phendrenad2 on 2/2/22, 10:08 AM
Most programmers find talking to nontechnical people like recruiters beneath them. They just want to crush the coding challenge, and be hired on the spot. The idea that there could be more to a job than writing lines of code is hard to fathom. Once you open up that world though, it's very interesting, and pays dividends.
by mvkel on 2/2/22, 6:31 AM
Separately, if you're not reading their canned email, what makes you think they're going to read your canned response?
by pizza234 on 2/1/22, 3:52 PM
I actually spend a little bit of effort to filter out (block) incompetent recruiters, but that's all.
by jdright on 2/2/22, 1:23 AM
by michelb on 2/1/22, 7:18 PM
However, I sometimes help out my client's HR departments and the recruitment experience for other jobs is vastly different. Like searching for expert welders or other specific skillsets, not unlike the ones that exists in software development (+10 years java, +15 years embedded C, etc.). They almost always use external recruiters for the first filtering, and they deliver quality candidates. Expensive fees, but worth it.
Why is this such a problem with recruitment for software development? Are there recruitment shops that DO understand the differences in software development?
by andrew_ on 2/1/22, 4:20 PM
The lone full-time contract I took on came about from recruiter contact, but he wasn't one of those keyword carpet bombing mooks. I've only ever landed one full-time job without a referral in 20 years in the industry. Referrals and niche market sites (e.g. AngelList) are the way to go.
by Rd6n6 on 2/1/22, 4:35 PM
The time required to work with the 99 who can’t double your salary isn’t nothing, that’s a part time or even full time job spent courting people who are just spamming everybody on linkedin with a pulse
by honkycat on 2/1/22, 9:38 PM
During that time I was relying on recruiters to hunt down leads for me.
Nothing was coming up! They kept trying to feed me full-stack and front-end roles, and I kept saying no thank you.
Then, I just started sending out my own resumes. And I instantly got more callbacks in the MONTHS I spent with recruiters.
I have a few suspicions:
1. The recruiters present themselves as having a "relationship" with companies, but they actually don't, they are just bullshitting you.
2. The jobs people actually want end up getting filled, so if you end up with a recruiter, you are going to be ending up with bottom-tier opportunities.
by tra3 on 2/1/22, 4:17 PM
The incentives for recruiters are clear; to get you hired. They cannot however force a hire and there's a threshold for submitting duds -- their clients will stop working with them.
I look at recruiters as a helping hand in the hiring process. That said I've had a couple that have wasted my time, so there's that.
Typically, unless you're getting flooded, it takes almost nothing to engage with them temporarily. I like the approach the author recommends. Recruiters are folks that are trying to make a living too, there's no need to be nasty.
by manuelabeledo on 2/1/22, 4:27 PM
Truth is, many first contacts are just to add you to their database. In some cases, there aren't any immediate openings either.
by bravetraveler on 2/1/22, 4:18 PM
I haven't had issues with finding good paying work - history, references, and a good bit of research in the places where I apply has served me well /shrug
by city41 on 2/1/22, 4:28 PM
> you don’t want to be a jerk to the one in 100 who have taken the time to carefully craft a high quality message to you alone.
I agree with this. If I get the sense the recruiter put effort into the email, then I will usually respond. I'm sure I still fall for automated messages with this. But some recruiters really do their homework, really research you, have interesting and fitting opportunities, and can be valuable.
The 99.99% of recruiters who are just spamming? Totally ignore them.
by justinlloyd on 2/1/22, 7:05 PM
I will also say that most recruiter outreach, even in this hot market, is absolutely lousy, and the compensation on offer is below what I am currently earning at a company I am exceptionally happy with doing work I love, and I don't consider myself to be overly compensated.
Most recruiters that do any outreach immediately ghost me when I ask about compensation range, and if compensation range is mentioned, it has yet to be more than what I currently make. Once or twice in the past three months I've had an "upto $X for the right candidate" where $X is only 10% more than what I am currently making, so it is highly unlikely I will get that upper bound.
If I responded to every recruiter that reached out to me via email and LinkedIn I'd spend many more hours per day wasting my time than I would care to think about. And most recruiters that reach out to me these days are of the exceptionally low quality churn'n'burn variety.
I currently have three recruiter messages open on LinkedIn, one for an animator with 2+ years of experience, another for someone wanting a mid-level front-end web developer for an AR application, and another for a "senior" Java programmer. I don't do any of those things, didn't even look at my profile or C.V. Just a scattershot approach, which you would think on LinkedIn, with its targetted InMails, it wouldn't be the case. But here we are.
Of the one recruiter out of the three who didn't immediately ghost when asked about compensation (always my first question), the upper bound is $80K below what I currently make, and again, I don't consider myself well compensated.
My recommendation is never waste your time with any recruiter, but if you must, expend it on those that actually work for the company they are hiring for.
by db1234 on 2/1/22, 8:13 PM
by yupper32 on 2/1/22, 6:13 PM
1. It's not like they give up. I've been receiving the same emails from the same firms for years and years.
2. You can't just respond. The few times I've responded years ago meant that they follow up at an even more frequent pace, even when I made it clear I wasn't interested. Sometimes calling me after I said no!
3. It's clear very few of them actually read my profile.
4. Very few are upfront with compensation.
by yangmeansyoung on 2/1/22, 11:32 PM
Personally, I rearly had good experience with recruiters, one they had difference goal compare you or the company you want join. Most efficient way to get into a company is by referral, e.g next time when you do some shitty work think twice, as it got long term impact.
by stjohnswarts on 2/1/22, 7:09 PM
1. did they name someone/some company that I know
2. Does it look like a form letter
3. Do they have a "give me all these details" section of the email on the 1st email. Instant trash can on that one.
4. Does it fall under the regime of things I do.
5. What email address alias/phone number did they have access to.
by refurb on 2/2/22, 5:04 AM
I work with a couple recruiters who: 1) actually respond to emails, 2) actually look at my CV to see if a role is a good match, 3) have some long term commitment to clients.
When I get an email about a role that matches well from a job I had a decade ago, straight to spam folder.
by dschuetz on 2/1/22, 3:58 PM
by rthomas6 on 2/1/22, 4:32 PM
by MattPalmer1086 on 2/1/22, 5:31 PM
I usually ignore the others.
The ones that spam me with positions that are clearly absolutely nothing to do with my career, I sometimes respond to asking why they think I'm suitable. And that's just for the childish pleasure of wasting a bit of their time.
by stakkur on 2/1/22, 4:55 PM
The truest statement is the one the author makes up front: >Recruiters are just cold calling
More accurately, they're contacting a lot of people who's profile contains their search keywords. No recruiter is contacting only you for a req they're trying to fill.
by thrower123 on 2/1/22, 4:17 PM
It's a high bar for them to cross; I've only seen two or three in the past few years, and those I think were sold my data by Triplebyte instead.
by rietta on 2/1/22, 6:11 PM
by Apreche on 2/1/22, 3:59 PM
by nemo44x on 2/1/22, 11:45 PM
Do a good turn daily.
by taubek on 2/2/22, 9:03 AM
I've learned a lot from just talking with recruiters, I got a lot of good advice on how to improve my CV, etc.
I landed my current job thanks to a recruiter that was persistent and didn't forget about me :)
by lnxg33k1 on 2/1/22, 8:44 PM
Is it a thing? Am I Sir Worker of Devs I?
by speedgoose on 2/1/22, 4:14 PM
by acjohnson55 on 2/1/22, 11:24 PM
by phendrenad2 on 2/2/22, 10:18 AM
by vmception on 2/1/22, 3:52 PM
There is a time and place for in-house recruiters and third party recruiters. This article does not identify them and obsessively takes the contrarian view with no supporting rationale for doing so.
by MattGaiser on 2/1/22, 4:27 PM
The problem is that far too many of those companies are using an external recruiter to fill the job as the job is low paid garbage.
by throckmortra on 2/1/22, 6:17 PM
My simple rules of engagement
by Ekaros on 2/1/22, 5:26 PM
by dave_sid on 2/1/22, 10:07 PM
by froggertoaster on 2/2/22, 1:53 AM
I used to respond to recruiters, "here's how much I make - if you can match that then I'd be happy to listen". Most of the time they didn't respond.
The one guy who did has found me a lot of business since. (I now own a consultancy.)
by whateveracct on 2/1/22, 6:35 PM
by ricardobayes on 2/1/22, 5:05 PM
by robin_reala on 2/1/22, 4:16 PM
Your union?
by blizkreeg on 2/1/22, 4:51 PM
by jyu on 2/1/22, 5:55 PM
That's what a recruiter is.
by jugg1es on 2/1/22, 9:05 PM
by xutopia on 2/1/22, 6:00 PM
by goe1zorbey on 2/6/22, 11:29 PM
Still didn’t contacted or replied any of them. Sometimes, I am asking myself if I am missing any good opportunities because of not replying.
[1] rumor: Munich region
by mkl95 on 2/1/22, 6:26 PM
by emodendroket on 2/2/22, 5:58 AM
by bdamm on 2/1/22, 6:18 PM
by lxe on 2/1/22, 5:42 PM
by praptak on 2/1/22, 4:31 PM
I spoke to recruiters but they were pretty useless for getting a job.
by aluminussoma on 2/1/22, 7:27 PM
by onphonenow on 2/1/22, 4:24 PM
Insta-delete if I'm doing hiring... ? I've found folks who actually deliver seem to have less of this type of long winded stuff.
by civilized on 2/1/22, 4:46 PM
by FpUser on 2/1/22, 6:06 PM
by mmastrac on 2/1/22, 4:59 PM
by habeebtc on 2/1/22, 4:21 PM
The ones who send me jobs I am way overqualified for, or simply don't pay enough, I tell them my current compensation package with the advice to send relevant offers in the future.
Realistically though, every external recruiter I have talked to since I got into my current big tech company has been a waste of time. They can't usually touch my comp package, and only the other big tech companies are likely to be able to (or internal recruiters).
by braramod on 2/2/22, 2:17 PM
by democracy on 2/1/22, 4:00 PM
by 1270018080 on 2/1/22, 4:18 PM
by Snetry on 2/2/22, 2:53 PM
by tudorconstantin on 2/1/22, 8:45 PM
by hsn915 on 2/1/22, 4:33 PM
by tomrod on 2/1/22, 5:21 PM
There are some 3rd party groups that are solid. Most are a waste of time.
by lifeplusplus on 2/1/22, 4:28 PM
by jppope on 2/1/22, 3:56 PM
by koonsolo on 2/1/22, 5:19 PM
Best jobs I got when I picked the company and applied.
by twox2 on 2/2/22, 6:30 PM
by perfopt on 2/2/22, 2:57 AM
Whoa!! Is this for early career folks (less than 6 years)? In the 15-20 years experience range none of my friends and ex-colleagues who moved jobs got a 50% raise on moving.
by scarface74 on 2/2/22, 2:41 AM
1. Your bog standard run of the mill corp dev jobs. They all look alike and they all pay around the same. In most major cities that’s around $80K - $150K. This is where most developers work. A local recruiter can usually help you find a job as long as you have some experience and are looking for average wages. Yes I know “average” for software engineers even in this category puts you in the upper middle income.
2. The Big Tech, unicorn, let’s waste VC money tech companies - with compensation levels you see on levels.fyi. External recruiters are useless once you are looking in that range. But again, there are only a few dozen companies that pay in this range, they are always hiring and we all know how to find them if they don’t find us first.
by caffeine on 2/1/22, 4:29 PM
by omgmajk on 2/1/22, 8:18 PM
by instagraham on 2/2/22, 5:54 AM
by rr808 on 2/1/22, 4:41 PM
Most experienced people in HCOL areas still earning 150k-200k max. When I talk to a recruited and ask for 300k often they'll say its possible but dont say if you have to be a superstar to get that. Meta seems paying 500k+ often and random big tech cos are all over the place.
by dboreham on 2/1/22, 4:15 PM
by mrkentutbabi on 2/2/22, 2:29 AM
by onion2k on 2/1/22, 4:38 PM
by 988747 on 2/1/22, 11:51 PM
by stretchwithme on 2/1/22, 8:39 PM
by gloryjulio on 2/1/22, 3:47 PM
by tsujamin on 2/2/22, 4:50 AM
by douglee650 on 2/1/22, 8:39 PM
- everything is signal, even/especially noise in aggregate - engineers are particularly subject to blind spots - know yourself - ymmv
by sleepingadmin on 2/2/22, 1:33 PM
I also suspect asking for company name will scare off most recruiters because if you go around them, they dont get paid.
They do say keep interviewing to keep the skill sharp. So perhaps there is something to be said here.
Here's the one I got today, when I try to reply it just says 'you're replying to a mailing list' so really I'm nobody to this one.
>I am reaching out to see if you would be interested in exploring Executive Level opportunities. >I have reviewed your LinkedIn profile and found your skills and experience to be impressive and relevant to the job position.
>If you are interested in learning more about our company and the position, we would love to set up a quick phone call. We would be pleased to answer any questions you may have and give you all the details about the job.
>Please reply to this email with an updated copy of your resume.
There's no way he 'reviewed my linkedin' while also just mailing list form. In fact if I look at it. The mailing form only really has $FIRSTNAME and that's about as much effort as they put in.
Yet they want me to produce an updated resume and join a quick call? Oh man that's asking.
by NikolaeVarius on 2/1/22, 4:00 PM
Makes it easier on all of us
by frockington1 on 2/1/22, 4:13 PM
by throwingawayyou on 2/1/22, 4:44 PM
by buttsecks on 2/1/22, 10:42 PM
You should always respond to recruiters at your OWN discretion. Use 3 digital condoms (throwaway numbers, etc.), and don't continue the Convo if they won't disclose details such as salary. Ain't nobody got time for dat.
by phgn on 2/1/22, 11:00 PM
For increasing your salary, and potentially finding a role you'd take. I'd not categorize this as "career resources" -- there's so much more important stuff like figuring out what you want out of your career and keeping on track with it.
Why do people focus on money so much when making career changes? Sure, you'll get more in your next job because the current salary is a piece of leverage to use. But if it's only about money, why did you accept your current job?