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Ask HN: A colleague is leaving. How to investigate what went wrong?

by theSage on 8/24/19, 12:28 PM with 94 comments

• by lubujackson on 8/24/19, 4:34 PM

  Your curiosity, professional or personal, probably has little bearing on what they tell you. The wording you use doesn't matter - exit interviews are always framed as "what we could have done better/could do better in the future?" but it is rarely so innocent in reality, and people know this. At best, companies use divulged complaints as a basis for negotiation retain the employee (what if we raised your salary to match your offer? What if we reassigned you to a different manager?) but often it is simply used get the employee to sign a waiver relieving to company of any legal blame. And a likely outcome is that their complaint about their boss gets passed along and it bites them in the ass when they need a referral down the road. So what advantage do they have for being honest? In what way could it possibly benefit THEM to tell you anything?

  To be honest, a company should always know or be able to figure out the real answer to this question if it their own doing. Either the employee got a better job or the writing was on the wall. If you as a company have people leaving and no one knows why, you don't ask the leaving people you ask the people who are staying - Bob is leaving, is there anything we can do to improve YOUR experience? When they are out the door it is too late, so focus on the employees that are there.

• by PaulKeeble on 8/24/19, 3:58 PM

  Most of the time people leave bosses, not the job or the company. Almost all interactions are relatively close by, colleagues and their direct boss and if that isn't a comfortable environment with trust then usually that is what leads to resignation.

  If you don't know this individual it is unlikely they will honestly tell you why and the boss or coworkers may very well give no honest insight either regardless of the questions. They want out and they don't want your organisation ruining their future prospects with a bad reference. Most people do try to fix the problem before they just leave so at this point they consider it not worth voicing the problems further.

• by codingdave on 8/24/19, 3:37 PM

  > what could I have done personally / in official capacity that might have stopped this

  Were you their supervisor/manager/lead? If so, the standard answer is to have regular 1:1s with your staff, so things like this do not come as a surprise.

  And you cannot always keep everyone. Sometimes things really are not a fit. The last job I left was for reasons that had nothing to do with the team or product, or anything easily changeable. I simply wasn't OK with the commute to a new office. There are a myriad of personal reasons that someone might not want to work somewhere. That doesn't mean the company is flawed - it just means people are different, and have different preferences and needs.

  I'd recommend spending less focus on why one person left, and more on ongoing discussions with the people who remain, as well as being sure new staff has every opportunity to learn about the company, so they can self-select out before they are hired if they see anything that would not work well for them.

• by DoreenMichele on 8/24/19, 3:39 PM

  I left my corporate job for personal reasons largely unrelated to the job per se. I certainly had my criticisms of the company, but probably needed to leave regardless.

  So while you try to gather information, keep in mind that "not a good fit" could be a polite way of saying "It's none of your business and kindly butt the hell out of my private life, thank you."

  Not everything that happens around you is about "you"/the company. That's not how life works.

• by mooreds on 8/24/19, 12:56 PM

  I think it depends on your trust level with the colleague. Or rather, their trust in you.

  When you leave sometimes you don't want to help improve things for people staying, you just want/need to get the heck out. It can feel petty to present a laundry list of things you wish your former employer would change.

  I'd approach that head on and assure them that:

  1. You will keep anything they say confidential (unless there's anything illegal that surfaces)

  2. You are acting in an unofficial capacity, not as a company person

  3. You are having the conversation to help the other team members, not the company (because they will likely care more about them)

  4. You want to hear whatever they have to say, no matter how big or small

• by goatinaboat on 8/24/19, 4:51 PM

  If you search workplace.SE for this you will know that the consensus is to say nothing in an exit interview

  https://workplace.stackexchange.com/search?q=exit+interview

• by wenc on 8/24/19, 3:36 PM

  If you google "exit interview" you will find tons of opinions and ideas (example [1]).

  Timing is important -- if you want to get useful information, you need to time the exit interview 1-3 months after departure so there's (typically) no fear of repercussion so folks' views tend to be more candid.

  [1] https://hbr.org/2016/04/making-exit-interviews-count

• by ChuckMcM on 8/24/19, 6:17 PM

  These conversations don't work in the same way that conversations about why you declined to hire someone don't work. They always push into negotiations between the decider and the person who didn't like the decision. They have decided to leave, that is that.

  If you want to avoid these things in the future, a reasonable strategy is to be really clear in setting expectations of the people who work there and the metrics by which they are evaluated. Then check in with them regularly and talk about both of those things. That will keep the employee and the manager on the same page and it will be a surprise to neither of them when things change.

• by perfunctory on 8/24/19, 4:22 PM

  "what went wrong"? I don't like the phrasing. People leaving and wanting to do something else is perfectly normal. There is nothing wrong about it. It's just a fact of life. The best way to deal with it (apart from offering a better compensation) is to wish them all the best and say they are always welcome back.

• by davismwfl on 8/24/19, 1:14 PM

  This will all depend on what your role in the company is today and what your relationship with this person is.

  If you are in a leadership role at the company he/she may not want to open up to you for fear of reprisal even if you two have been friendly. If you two are teammates and you do not have a leadership role they may still not feel comfortable opening up to you because likely they have made comments and if no one picked up on it to discuss with them then they will feel you are complicit or accepting of the situation and don't want to create tension.

  There is no harm trying to learn why for sure, but also know sometimes (especially with more senior people) people recognize when their thought processes, methodologies just don't align well with a team or company so they will remove themselves. This doesn't actually mean there is anything wrong with the company/team or with that person, just they recognized the differences and know those would create conflict, tension or struggles for themselves on the team. This is a healthy thing to have happen. That said, it is a very small number of the people that leave usually, more common reasons of leaving are for a lack of recognition, money and/or progress.

  If you and the person leaving are both IC's then ask them from a place of curiosity to better understand what they might have seen that you haven't. This is probably the best way to get data points and be non-threatening to the person. When I say non-threatening, I don't mean you literally threatening them, but if you come at them with 20 questions it can start to feel like an interrogation and the persons self defense mechanisms will go up and conversation will go no where.

  If you are in any kind of leadership role at the company, come at them from the place of not wanting to lose a good person, but respecting that sometimes people move on for a whole host of reasons. From your perspective you are trying to confidentially understand what the company could do better or change that might make the difference for the next person. Approach it this way, once they tell you if the asks are reasonable say if we made these adjustments would you stay, but don't approach the entire conversation from a place of would you stay. Approach it from the point of view to make sure issues are resolved for the rest of the team and the next people coming in. This is the best way to get data points usually and do so in a way people feel more open to chat. If at the end you ask them if these changes were made would you stay and they say no, then ask why not? That sometimes will open up a more true reason.

  *edit: changed a word for readability

• by imsofuture on 8/25/19, 12:31 AM

  Are you their friend? "Hey, why are you leaving?"

  Not their friend? Why on earth would you think they owe you an answer to any of the questions you listed?

• by aj7 on 8/24/19, 6:30 PM

  The zeroth order term in persons leaving is usually some sort of systemic insult to them. As a manager, identify the insult. Later, your organization will have to judge whether these conditions are "worth it" or localized to the individual.

• by house9-2 on 8/24/19, 4:58 PM

  > I'll be speaking to them in unofficial capacity soon. What all should we talk about?

  The weather.

  You are talking in an unofficial capacity I don't think any of your proposed questions should be discussed; except maybe showing interest in their future, did they already get another job? If not let them know you can be used as a reference.

  > What other things can I ask them to prevent/improve this situation in the future?

  Don't ask, if they trust you they will let you know. May have nothing to do with your company at all.

  Honestly, I think you need to ask yourself the questions you are proposing, if you are paying attention then you already know the answers.

• by muzani on 8/24/19, 11:35 PM

  To answer the last question, management needs to regularly have one-on-ones with engineers.

  A lot of one-on-ones are done wrong. 80% of the talking should come from the employee not the manager. Ask them what they want, where they want their career to go, what anxieties/insecurities/discomfort they have with the company and what they're working on, what needs to be moved out of the way.

  To answer the first question, this is what needs to happen. Just listen to them. Don't come in with a list of questions.

• by opportune on 8/24/19, 6:51 PM

  >"I don't feel like I'm a fit for <xyz> company"

  This is a really good general cop-out answer because it avoids creating hard-feelings or burning bridges if there was actually a more specific complaint (I hate working with that guy, my manager sucks, the work is super boring, product is stupid, pay sucks etc.)

  First thing to check is, where the person is next going, are they going to be making more money? If so that is likely a reason. Another reason could be that they thought their potential for advancement at your company was low, at least in comparison to somewhere else. If the employee is an engineer, it could also be that they thought their learning had slowed or they were not working on the right kind of tech they wanted to for their career. For me, these career related reasons are the most likely reasons I would jump ship.

  It's important to note that you shouldn't take a career-motivated jump personally. The only thing you can do is try to reorganize your company to make this less likely, by paying more, giving more opportunity for advancement, or working on/with sexier tech.

  If it's not about career, it's probably either interpersonal or cultural. Maybe they feel socially excluded? Maybe their manager is too distant, an asshole, or a creep? Maybe they don't want to work as long / the same hours as everyone else?

  Regardless, there is a very good chance you will never get a straight answer, or will get some fake, nice excuses. This type of thing requires introspection, not an exit interview.

• by op00to on 8/24/19, 6:56 PM

  I would never tell the truth about why I leave a job. There’s nothing in it for me.

• by Causality1 on 8/24/19, 3:49 PM

  More often than not it's because their boss doesn't care about the answer to those questions, even if you their peer do.

• by chvid on 8/24/19, 6:07 PM

  Personally I would not say anything of substance at an exit interview. And I know many people wouldn't either.

  Maybe wait until 2 weeks after the person has left and invite him or her out for a beer or a coffee and then have an informal chat.

• by duxup on 8/24/19, 3:44 PM

  Provided you've some relationship with this person / they feel free to speak I would try to get them to speak in a more open ended manner about the job and their experience.

  Personally I find when folks ask me specific questions about my job ... we don't have a common language and I have no idea what they really mean by what they're asking.

  Also be open to the idea that this was just bound to happen and it is nobody's fault. Some jobs just aren't for some people depending on any number of factors.

• by Ididntdothis on 8/24/19, 6:44 PM

  I don’t think such a conversation would do any good. If you had had a good relationship you would probably already know what’s going on. I don’t like exit interviews where you get asked why you are leaving. These questions should have been asked much earlier.

  Personally I don’t think seeking such a conversation when somebody is leaving won’t do good for anybody.

• by cryptozeus on 8/24/19, 4:16 PM

  Look into underlying reasons

  1) employees leave mostly because of manager

  2) Not being challenged enough at work

  3) Got a job at another company with better pay

  4) personal reason, burn out etc.

• by bayesian_horse on 8/24/19, 3:35 PM

  Talking about the quality of a "fit" can be misleading. It presupposes that the factors which make people leave are actually beneficial to other people or the company.

  That's certainly not the case with toxic coworkers. Probably there are more examples...

• by JamesSwift on 8/24/19, 5:17 PM

  I think in many ways it's too late at this point. Keep the conversation casual and if it happens to veer into productive territory in terms of figuring out motivations then fine, but I wouldn't be asking probing questions unprompted.

• by AlexCoventry on 8/24/19, 4:53 PM

  What's your interest in this? Are you their peer or their superior?

• by bryanmgreen on 8/24/19, 5:05 PM

  Small plug for anyone interested here:

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  It’s designed to encourage employees to share feedback before issues reach an unsolvable state. Organizations can collect that feedback easily and built-in analytics will show trends to identify top issues.

  We’re soft-launching next month... if you’re interested, shoot an email to the link in my profile and I’ll hook you up.

• by ynsaX on 8/24/19, 4:20 PM

  If you want an honest answer, perhaps he or she does not like the singular they.

  If I read your question, I'd not be a fit for this company either. It creeps me out when people use they for someone with a known gender.

• by 9wzYQbTYsAIc on 8/24/19, 5:01 PM

  Not to be rude, but rather to provide some perspective, and totally guessing here, but perhaps the person is leaving because you are always getting up in his business and acting like a tight ass.

• by rajacombinator on 8/24/19, 3:54 PM

  Sounds like this person is your employee or direct report. Are you underpaying them? Do you use toxic “agile” practices at work? It’s very likely you can figure out why they left without asking.

• by techslave on 8/24/19, 4:11 PM

  you’re overthinking it