from Hacker News

Developers are not always rich people

by buzzlightyear on 7/6/15, 8:07 PM with 40 comments

• by kstenerud on 7/6/15, 8:33 PM

  You do whatever it takes to survive. I still remember making $20 last the entire month for food for two early in my career. I remember being rendered destitute. Twice. I remember having the tax man on my ass for a ton of money I didn't have after a particularly catastrophic failure. I've lived in 2 square meters of space while looking for a job. During that time, I wrote https://github.com/kstenerud/Musashi to keep myself sane. I've begged family members for a plane ticket just to get me the hell out of a bad situation. Now, 20 years into my career, I finally have some stability. Part of that is my fault, since I'm entrepreneurial at heart, and I'm too stubborn to lie down and die.

  When you're not born rich, you have a big challenge ahead of you. You fight, or you die.

• by organsnyder on 7/6/15, 8:48 PM

  Please, get in touch with family and/or a mental health professional. It's touch to tell from this brief post, but I wonder if you might be suffering from depression or another illness. This could easily lead to difficulty with getting work done, as well as having the confidence to endure the emotional roller coaster that job-hunting often entails.

  More to your question: I'm not sure if you're currently employed or not. Either way, it looks like you need to find a new job, so that's what I'm focusing on.

  Almost all of my job prospects have been from people I already know. In fact, my next job (starts in two weeks) came out of a chance encounter at a conference (I happened to sit at the right table for lunch). If you're job-hunting, you should be going to at least one meetup or other tech event per week—ideally more. Also, keep networking even when you're not actively looking—you never know when that might pay off (or you might be able to benefit them) in the future.

  Think of anyone that you know that might have a lead—former professors, friends, people you know from church or other social organizations, etc.—and see if you can meet them over coffee. Applying for a job with an inside connection is much more effective than applying blind.

  I've been where you are—I had an unconventional resume, and the wrong bullet points on my resume (tons of Java experience in an area where most of the big enterprises are on .NET). It sucks. The feeling of repeated rejection is soul-crushing. The amount of perseverance needed is staggering. But, I can say with a high amount of certainty that you can get through this. Don't be afraid to ask for help—no one should have to go through this alone.

• by L-boog on 7/6/15, 11:11 PM

  I'm a developer. I live in my car. I have a job but I don't make much. On the weekends I escape to libraries and try to find shaded areas before and after hours in parks. This past weekend was especially miserable because it was a 3 day weekend with nothing open. I spent a lot of hours just sitting in my car doing nothing. I find refuge at night at Walmart lots. It's not a good life but I'm managing. It keeps me hungry. I'm pushing myself harder than ever to learn and hopefully get a better job. Keep your head up, and remember this is only a temporary situation, it will pass.

• by mattbgates on 7/6/15, 10:49 PM

  My first job as a programmer in 2011, the boss was paying me US$10 an hour to code in Visual Basic 6. He gave me a $2 raise ($12) after 6 months of proving that I was a good coder. A year later, I ended up having to get a new job because I had debt that I had to pay off and didn't want to take 10 years to do it. Eventually got a job working a web developer for $16-$18/hr.

  The advice I have: If you have a college degree or at least 5 years experience in programming, know that you more valuable than you think you are. Also: The reality is, you are replaceable. Keep moving on til you are loving what you do and doing what you love .. and getting paid to do it.

• by Someone1234 on 7/6/15, 8:31 PM

  Move out of London. You don't need to be "close to work" a lot of people commute in every day. And, yes, train tickets are insanely expensive but I bet it is still a saving all things taken into account.

  $50k is do-able even in South England, I mean you won't be a movie star, but you'll get by on rent and so on until your salary increases. It is only London where that won't cut it.

• by goodguy1 on 7/6/15, 8:28 PM

  You are a skilled university graduate! Keep your hopes high, and don't let your struggles overwhelm you. Whether or not you decide to continue working in software, or choose another path, you will be able to find happiness somehow, believe in that! Perhaps you should find a part time job to supplement your income, or look for a new developing job. Don't give up!

• by Bahamut on 7/6/15, 8:42 PM

  Just $50k? I have $200k of debt :( . Thankfully software engineering has been a good profession to me, but it has forced me to be ruthless about salary negotiations and focusing on my career.

  Honestly, you could be in a much worse position - I was homeless out of grad school with no prospect of netting a job...for 2 1/2 years. I spent one week eating nothing but oatmeal due to lack of money.

  Focus on saving your money and using it judiciously - don't pay your debts until you can safely manage it. Accruing them in the long term is better than making irresponsible payments.

• by noxToken on 7/6/15, 8:47 PM

  I hear that long commutes are a mostly American. I can't truly attest to that, but I'm in the 30+ minutes boat. I would love to move closer, but good housing near my office is prohibitively expensive, and cheap housing is, well - you definitely get what you (don't) pay for.

  I've done the math, and the savings are worth it for me. Instead of idling in traffic like most commuters, I make the sleep sacrifice and show up about 15 minutes early. According to my car's built-in fuel economy monitor, I get about 16-18 MPG on a typical rush hour commute and 26-30 MPG if I'm early. That's huge.

  In addition to your commute, see where else you can cut costs. Americans spends nearly $8 daily on lunch. Bringing your own $3 lunch would save you about $100 monthly. You can also look into budget friendly foods that would put you at $1.50 per meal which would increase those savings to $130 per month.

  I don't know your overall financial situation, but consider creating a list of all of your monthly expenses. Before you even begin budgeting, start striking out items that are more luxury than necessity. Cut cable in favor of Netflix only. Hell, go rogue and stream everything. Drop your expensive phone plan for something simple. Consider cutting data out of your phone plan altogether. I don't know how connected London is, but I'm almost always in range of an access point.

  If all else fails, look to family for some funds. Hope that helped.

• by JamesReeves1988 on 7/7/15, 9:05 AM

  Move out of London.. There are plenty of other developer roles around the UK which pay a little less but the living costs are much less.

  I live in Wales, and my mortgage is £320 a month, taking my bills into account that is roughly around £800/£900 a month.

• by deeviant on 7/7/15, 12:11 AM

  It gets better. I ate rice/pinto beans for 80% of my meals the first year out of college(I graduated in 2010, not a good time even in the Bay Area, Ca), I defaulted on some bills, my first job sucked and paid like crap and wasn't even an actual dev position.

  But it eventually worked itself out. 5 years later, I have solid roof over my head, a good job, a wonderful wife and a great life. I think the most important thing for me to realize is that those things, being the stuff that eats us up inside, like bills, money and jobs, are really a small part of life, and you can never let them rule your life.

  Whatever you do, don't sell yourself short. Always be looking and open for any opportunities that present themselves to you. Be on your own advocate and make choices that are best for you, not your employer, parents or anything else. In the end, the only truly required attribute, in my humble opinion, that is required to be successful as a software developer(and many other things), is persistence. Persistence to learn the basics, persistence to hone your skills and persistence to look and keep looking until you find a job that fits your needs.

• by mariuskaunietis on 7/6/15, 9:02 PM

  As one person told me: "Rich are not who earn a lot, but those who spends wisely". I'm from Lithuania, and I see people migrating to UK for a better living. They mainly do the "dirty work" - wash dishes, load trucks, but they manage to save money. I already earn more than average lithuanian, even though I haven't event finished University yet.

• by CyberFonic on 7/7/15, 4:51 AM

  There are no easy answers. First things first, you are better off than most: you have a degree in a good field, a job and live in the UK.

  Many of us don't choose to have a landline. Pre-paid mobiles can be an excellent deal in the UK.

  Nobody gets rich by spending more than they earn. I am guessing you are being paid reasonably well. More than a recent immigrant, etc. So as painful as it might be, you need to adjust your costs (rent is probably one of the biggest ones) so that you are spending less. As many other HN readers have pointed out, you could move to somewhere with more affordable rents, either commute or find a job closer to home. Do you spend money on eating out? new toys? a car you hardly use? They are all discretionary spends that you could cut back on.

  If you are really suffering from burn-out, depression, some illness, then get that attended to urgently.

• by mandeepj on 7/6/15, 8:52 PM

  Look what skill sets are needed by high paying jobs then try to get those skills. There are lot of courses online. You can also do part time freelancing. There are lot of developers they charge $100+ per hour. Giving up is not an option. Only you can do it for yourself.

• by lcmatt on 7/7/15, 12:17 PM

  Get out of London ASAP. £32k a year is a respectable wage and you'll find it goes a long way once you move further north (I'm on a very similar wage and live in Leeds)

  First thing is you need that roof over your head, if possible clear those arrears as a priority - moving will become more difficult if you leave with debt as no agency or landlord will touch you and it will damage your credit rating for years.

• by javi830810 on 7/6/15, 9:01 PM

  Please never loose the will to live!!! Think about how many people, doesnt even get access to clean water. You're fine.

• by msie on 7/7/15, 6:36 AM

  Hopefully, if you have favourable laws you should think about some consumer proposal or bankruptcy. You should quickly get out of feeding the interest on your debts. Just think about it.