from Hacker News

Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

by deepuj on 11/2/14, 3:22 AM with 182 comments

  • by kabdib on 11/2/14, 1:59 PM

    At a couple of companies I was at, an Indian jobs shop had somehow gotten their mitts into our HR types and we were indundated with candidates who showed up with books like "Learn Java in 12 hours" or "Windows Device Drivers for N00bs" under their arms. Very junior types, without exception. Our interview questions were fed back, and I had to change them a fair amount. Not a problem.

    "The guy at XYZZY will ask about hash tables, so..." and I'd ask them questions about something else, like concurrency, to very obvious consternation. Halfway through an interview, one candidate even asked when I was going to ask about hash tables.

    "Fine. We can talk about concurrency and hash tables."

    There was an undercurrent of expectation. Their handler / manager (the relationship was never really made clear) called me one day and said "We expect you to give a job to several of our people. You keep changing your questions. What is the problem?" And I would explain that I wasn't going to hire someone junior, who we would have to teach how to do engineering, for a senior wage.

    Eventually they stopped coming, presumably having found better pastures.

  • by fadzlan on 11/2/14, 7:25 AM

    Worked with one big Indian company here in Malaysia last time and I see intimidation as common means of dealing with employees. Unfortunately, it doesn't really work well here, since most of people have a lot of choices moving around.

    I've been pushed to accept work that has a minimum wage in a different country, despite my experience and the fact I can't possibly survive with my family there. I've had my resume jacked up multiple times when they sent my resume to the client, up to the point that I had to deny I had never put certain things on my resume.

    For fresh grad though, if they quit earlier than 18 months, they have to pay almost a year of their salary, which seems reasonable when there are trainings when they joined the company. Except for the fact that the first year salary of said fresh grad are being paid in full by the Malaysian government (in exchange of hiring certain number of locals per year). Some of the trainings are subsidized by the government too.

    Which explained how they can force employees to take a much less pay than what they are getting in other countries, where the cost of living is higher, because they can intimidate.

    Malaysia job market is much smaller than India, and such tactic didn't bode well, since there are not much replacement to come by when people are quitting, and smaller market means once you had bad reputation, new hires slowed to trickle.

    Now, I am not generalizing all Indian companies, there bad apples around the world, but I am just sharing my experience on how intimidation come about. I just find it disgusting that such practices are being practice somewhere in the world.

  • by gxs on 11/2/14, 6:05 AM

    When I graduated from colllege I started working at a top tech company on a contract to hire.

    The company was paid 50/hr fore and I was paid 20 an hour. When I asked for more, the indian-born Indian CEO of the company went apeshit on me.

    No real story only that almost everyone is scum. It's not just the companies. When I told the director of my org what I was getting paid she hired me full time right away at a competitive salary. And I was just lucky that she happened to like me. Other people who complained simply got let go.

    I sense there is something else at play here IT work isn't that hard, yet for some reason instead of increasing awareness that there is huge demand for these jobs, we fly people in from india. We pay 150 bucks an hour for them, when an eager college kid can do and would do the same job with a bit of training for a fraction of the cost. Something else is going on here.

  • by selmnoo on 11/2/14, 4:52 AM

        This bullying persists at the bottom of a complex system 
    that supplies workers to some of America’s richest and 
    most successful companies, such as Cisco Systems, Verizon 
    and Apple.
    I find this extremely confusing, why companies like Facebook and Apple and others in SV, that're sitting on an unbelievable shitload of cash take filthy shortcuts like this, screw the very people that work for them so badly. I mean, seriously, I'm at a loss for words. Why? Why not just pay them a reasonable wage when you are more than capable enough to?

  • by putlake on 11/2/14, 5:21 AM

    As bad as some of these stories are, H1-B is way better than an L1 visa. Talk about indentured servitude. With an H1-B visa, an employee can at least change jobs and find another employer to work for. All the other employer has to do is transfer the H1 sponsorship, which is a few thousand dollars in fees but no legal hassles and not much delay. So with H1, you have decent job mobility. With the L-1 visa, which is almost never discussed in the media covering immigration, there is ZERO job mobility. You can only work for the company that got you to the United States from abroad where you were working for the same company. And for Indians who are here LEGALLY, the wait for a green card can be up to 9 years. A lot of companies make their employees wait before even applying for a green card. So they get a good 10 years of indentured servitude legally here in the United Sates.

  • by freshflowers on 11/2/14, 10:05 AM

    This is neither unique for tech workers nor unique for the US. It has been happening in many professions for decades.

    Tech is just specifically vulnerable, because despite all evidence to the contrary (wage suppression, the huge discrepancy between reported talent shortage and actual salaries) we drank the industry kool-aid and believe we don't need no stinkin' unions and government regulation, and that we techies are part of the lucky middle class that will remain. Most of this complacency is caused by the fact that we still have pretty decent salaries compared to most other workers, but of course that is also what makes us a nice big juicy target for dubious practices.

  • by houseofshards on 11/2/14, 6:01 AM

    The worst part here is that H1B visas allocated to these scumbag companies end up starving genuine companies of these visas.

  • by manishsharan on 11/2/14, 2:38 PM

    Most people coming on H1B are no less talented /skilled or hardworking that an average american techie. However, the H1B worker is not aware of his rights. The average H1b worker has no one to turn to for help as the people who are most vehemently against H1B have racist and xenophobic agendas. I speak from experience : while on a H1B VISA (and in middle of a unpleasant work situation), I sought help by seeking out the people behind anti-H1B VISA web pages. Not only did those people I asked for help had no assistance for me , they hounded me with hateful racist mails, phone calls and death threats.

    The focus of this article and sadly HNers is to punish and prosecute the companies. Not one opinion has been offered to make the lives of H1B better. So let me offer one.

    The US consulate can brief the H1B GRANTEE on his /her rights.Maybe include an DVD or training video on youtube along with a hotline or number of labour lawyers. Make the company sponsoring H1B agree to abide by labour laws of California or whichever state the the company is located in.

  • by danmaz74 on 11/2/14, 10:48 AM

    > Contracting with labor brokers also benefits US employers. They can staff up swiftly for temporary jobs and slim down just as fast, with workers paid below-market rates.

    I really don't understand why H1B visas aren't tied to the worker's pay. Considering that they're intended for difficult to find specialists, it should be easy enough to weed out fake applications by tying the visa to an at least average salary for the sector.

  • by plicense on 11/2/14, 7:33 AM

    I noted two things:

    1. "Shackling workers to their jobs is such an entrenched business practice that it has even spread to US nationals" - such US arrogance.

    2. Almost all names of people affected seem to be from the state of Tamil Nadu in India.

  • by starving_coder on 11/2/14, 8:09 PM

    The Center for Investigative Reporting did approach me since i am victim of this scam too. I chose to settle out of court sheer out of fear and lack of ideas. As per settlement terms, i am not supposed to talk about this entire episode to anyone ever. But i am still talking here on HN. Back in 2008 I paid $330/hour (10 hours in advance as a retainer) to an attorney to file a response to the legal notice i received. I also paid other damages to my employer totaling $7500. I was literally forced to sign the "binding agreement" which was part of my joining formality after i landed in SF. Had i seen this doc earlier while still in India, chances are i wouldn't have taken that flight. I spent almost a month without pay, medical insurance (in spite of working for the client) but ultimately blinked and signed that document. Its evil. And this ritual is here to stay until the feds really are interested in solving this problem.

  • by gleenn on 11/2/14, 6:29 AM

    I think it is terrible that companies are taking advantage of foreigners, but I also keep seeing this $20,000 number thrown around a lot. That's how much it costs for a company to apply for an H1B. The companies should not be using that to prevent people from quitting, but it is a very real, large expense to getting workers from out of the US.

    The flip side of the argument isn't great either. If Softcorp or whatever pays a small fortune to get someone an H1B, that person shouldn't turn around and leave immediately either. It's just really sad that this means Softcorp, etc know they can use that as a leash and treat the worker like crap.

    Someone tell me a solution to this problem given the H1B's cost so much. How do you prevent abuse? It seems like making the worker pay for the visa would fix it, but I have a feeling that is quite difficult as well. Also, it would be kind of crazy to have to pay a huge sum to take a job.

  • by saurabhnanda on 11/2/14, 6:36 AM

    Is penalising early exit through contractual terms illegal? If not, then isn't this just a case of who has more leverage when negotiating the employment contract? That, and the fact that Indians are so desperate to go to the US that they're willing to sign any contract.

    PS: I'm an Indian working in India.

  • by HaseebR7 on 11/2/14, 5:17 AM

    WOW, this is scary. I'm from India and thinking of getting my MS in CS next year. I hope i don't end up like this.

  • by bbarn on 11/2/14, 8:23 AM

    I think this is going to continue in some shape, even if it doesn't necessarily look like this, because these companies are going to India to pay less money, bottom line. Add in a large pool of people wanting to make the move, and someone will always be willing to do it for the types of contracts we're talking about here.

    As has been pointed out many times here on HN, there is no shortage of qualified dev/it talent in the US. There is a surplus of companies with bad jobs that don't want to pay market rate, and look at these brokers as risk mitigation strategies to fill the head count someone said they needed.

    When cutting costs is your motivation, people have a strong tendency to get hurt.

  • by known on 11/2/14, 10:32 AM

  • by designml on 11/2/14, 7:41 AM

    This actually happened to one of the people I know. That person had to go through a lot just to get out of the stranglehold of those people. Literally screwed. They were paying half of market and also not even paying it on time. Unfortunately its difficult to pursue a legal route against these people because of the cost to pay lawyers and also the fact that they do it in such a way that its borderline legal/illegal. The only thing you can do is to save other people who may fall into the same trap.

  • by ssiddharth on 11/2/14, 5:24 AM

    This is disgusting on so many levels. Hopefully us Indians can now stop being so starry eyed over working abroad and see it for what it is.

  • by coldcode on 11/2/14, 7:50 PM

    If we have to have these visa programs, the law should be changed to only allow the actual hiring company to contract with the worker, and under no circumstances allow any intermediary to be a go-between. Then at least there can be some kind of tracking instead of everything being hidden behind closed doors.

    Of course with our stupid politicians nothing will change except for the worse.

  • by thewarrior on 11/2/14, 8:42 AM

    I'm working at a company in India and our bond period is upto 3 years long. Imagine that.

  • by ugh123 on 11/2/14, 5:43 AM

    Just an extension of the scummy tech recruiter industry we have currently.

  • by tomohawk on 11/2/14, 3:08 PM

    I have no problem encouraging people who want to be part of our country to immigrate, particularly if they have good skills. This H1B program, though - it's just got to go.

  • by known on 11/3/14, 10:58 AM

  • by induscreep on 11/2/14, 6:53 AM

    Does anyone know if this situation is specific to IT/tech/computer science related companies? Does it happen to, say, petroleum engineers?

  • by torpmode on 11/2/14, 6:23 AM

    "... spending his days at a company apartment in Norcross, Georgia. His first assignment:Wait for Softech to find him a job. After languishing for 10 weeks without work or full-time pay ..."

    This means free housing and paid unemployment benefit, plus the people paying you are finding you a job themselves. I'm sure there are some Americans who wouldn't mind subscribing to that service. Yes, there's a cost of not quitting before you contract's up, but for some it may be worth it, as long as they're sufficiently well informed.

  • by yegor256a on 11/2/14, 8:23 AM

    Do we really need to use so many words to describe so obvious situation?..

  • by danielweber on 11/2/14, 5:07 PM

    The link has audio automatically playig.

  • by waps on 11/2/14, 4:52 AM

    Weird is how many of the bad employers are Indians themselves (or I think so, given they're names):

    Krishnan Kumar, from Softech

    Malini Sridhar, from Compsys Technologies (found through http://appext20.dos.ny.gov/ )

    Tata Consultancy Services Ltd, part of India’s Tata group

    Even the lawyers suing these employees :

    > Past president of the South Asian Bar Association of Georgia, attorney Roy Banerjee has a penchant for wearing bow ties and representing body shops. He has prevailed in many cases against Indian immigrant programmers, winning judgments or settlements from some, while others fled back to India.

  • by hemantv on 11/2/14, 5:27 AM

    This doesn't happen very frequently in California. Its much more prevalent in other states.