from Hacker News

The badge of ignorance

by emilepetrone on 10/5/14, 4:50 PM with 21 comments

• by kyro on 10/5/14, 6:05 PM

  The people who react that way towards not just ignorance, but inquisitiveness, are plainly assholes. If you do this, you are an asshole, too.

  I experienced this sort of condescension all through medical school, and my experience is not unique. There is nothing more embarrassing, deflating, and discouraging than being made to feel like an idiot in front of your peers because you could not recall a piece of information, or because a question of yours was deemed too basic and simple for an expert to waste their time answering. That is how you stunt curiosity and instill destructive self-doubt. My most beloved teachers are those who exercised patience and did not treat any question as beneath them. I didn't take advantage of it. In fact, I was more motivated to learn and to return to discuss new ideas and concepts.

  This reflects on a wider social view in which coming across as ignorant or not knowing the answer to a question is perceived as a sign of weakness. If you don't know something, you don't admit it and instead bullshit your way to perceived expertise.

  My point is, people who do this are a net negative to your growth and society at large. It's taken me a while to grow comfortable with not knowing a lot, and to accept that there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. When I encounter people like this, I view them as nothing more than assholes who are not worth interacting with, and move on to finding the answer I need. What saddens me is that there are many who are stopped dead on their path to learning.

  /rant

• by chton on 10/5/14, 5:25 PM

  I'm saddened every time I see supposed experts or 'knowers' react with disdain to simple questions. Even if you've completely forgotten that you were once the ignorant one, shouldn't you at least be happy and helpful when somebody else wants to learn your craft? What is that makes some people so inclined to act as if they're the superior one?

• by tux3 on 10/5/14, 6:25 PM

  Here's my oh-so important and unpopular opinion, because I feel like wasting 10 minutes.

  >If you’ve ever tried to learn a new skill, you’ve experienced that range of reaction.

  I actually haven't, because in the case of let's say, programming, I learned most everything myself. I read and google'd instead of bothering other people for every little problem.

  I'm really not trying to be a jerk - honest - but hearing the same very simple questions asked again and again is tiring. Try to put yourself in the shoes of the "jack asses". Maybe they act like this for a reason, they are humans just like you after all.

  I know that I don't mind helping but it sometime feels "like people never learn", imho that's often why others won't help you or will groan at your cluelessness. Most of the time you could google your questions and get an answer immediately, that's what I did and that's still what I do. This is especially true for Python, what you're learning. You can often just copy paste a working piece of code from the very first result, no thinking involved.

  >The difference between the knowledgeable and the ignorant is that the knowledgeable took it on the chin, and kept going.

  That's where I disagree. If you really need help, and if you at least tried to find a solution, mention it and people will help you. I will personally go out of my way to help you if it looks like you actually want and try to learn.

  Questions like “What’s the difference between a list and a set?” and “A server does what?” show that you haven't done your homework ! It's a bit rude to expect people to spoonfeed you all the way and then call them assholes when they get bored of it.

  >When people scoff at your questions, just move on until you find the answer. Know that up front, and when you see it, ignore it.

  Or perhaps, try to understand why they scoff at your question in the first place. Calling them "ass holes" and ignoring the issue seems a bit short sighted.

  >Just know when people balk at your badge, it’s means you are on the right path. Keep pushing.

  Maybe "Try smarter not harder" ?

  I'll finally just point you to this thing (http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html) which is a tad extreme in my opinion, but makes its point extremely clear if you can manage to read through it without calling the author a pretentious asshole and just closing the tab.

• by freditup on 10/5/14, 6:03 PM

  I find that I sometimes act like the 'assholes' in this essay. However, the attitude of the person asking the question seems to affect me a lot: I tend to be a lot more of a jerk to people who have a very high opinion of their skills and ask beginner questions than to people who readily admit that they're just learning.

  Why? Because I like the implicit acknowledgement of my superiority? Because people who think they're great when they aren't are annoying? Who knows. Note that I'm not condoning my own behavior here, just observing it.

• by A_COMPUTER on 10/5/14, 6:09 PM

  I guess I see both sides of this. A Python programming group isn't necessarily an intro to programming group and may expect people to come in already knowing general programming concepts. On the other hand there are a hundred good ways of dealing with a beginner that you can use rather than making them feel like human garbage. I recognize this as a very real problem so I sympathize with the author.

• by dmritard96 on 10/5/14, 5:28 PM

  as a founder at an early stage hwstartup, we have already helped other founders figure out the pieces that we are a few weeks ahead on. In a world full of open software and hardware, its nice to see a call for open mindedness.