from Hacker News

An S.O.S. in a Saks Bag

by danielpal on 6/6/14, 4:33 AM with 24 comments

• by jdietrich on 6/6/14, 1:11 PM

  I don't intend to defend the human rights record of China, but I do question the outright opposition to the use of labour as a means of punishment and/or rehabilitation.

  Here in the UK, we have a criminal justice system that isn't without fault, but is one of the best in the world. We make extensive use of "forced labour", both in the community and in prison. British prisoners are required to participate in work or training activities, or face the withdrawal of privileges - fewer visits and phone calls, less free association time and so on. There is no significant history of corruption or malpractice in the use of prison labour here and there is broad consensus that requiring prisoners to engage in productive activity improves prison discipline and aids rehabilitation.

  From my perspective, it seems that the issue is clearly of degree rather than of type. The issue is of broader prison welfare, not the specific issue of prison labour. To castigate the Chinese penal system as "modern day slavery" us fundamentally unhelpful. The article has a tone that borders on hysteria, with no real global context or reference to the use of prison labour outside China.

  There are clearly major human rights issues in the Chinese penal system, but I think we should specifically address those issues directly. The use of torture and capital punishment is considered unambiguously wrong in the developed world, and the abolition of these practices in China, the US and the Middle East is of utmost priority. Frankly, I think that the article is a covertly ideological attack on China, part of a broader trend of commentary that seeks to dismiss Chinese industrial growth as merely the result of the oppression of labour rather than of good governance and well-managed economic development.

• by firstOrder on 6/6/14, 6:29 AM

  I wonder if the bags manufactured in US prisons ever have notes slipped into them. You don't have to go to Saks, you can buy them online -

  http://www.iaprisonind.com/store/c/31-Plastic-Bags.aspx http://www.iaprisonind.com/store/c/77-Miscellany.aspx

  Oh yaa, he says he's not guilty. I'm sure it would be hard to find a prisoner in a US prison who says he's not guilty.

  In fact some judges in the US freelance in sending innocent people to jail, in exchange for the kickbacks they get - http://articles.philly.com/2014-02-05/news/47009400_1_ciavar...

  Americans just love moralizing and pointing their fingers at other countries for the exact same things they do.

• by EdwardDiego on 6/6/14, 5:53 AM

  > Reëducation

  While this is completely unrelated to the subject matter, I admire the New Yorker's insistence on keeping the diaeresis alive.

• by VaedaStrike on 6/6/14, 7:56 AM

  Not wishing to at all detract from the egregious inhumanity of what is portrayed, but a notable thought crossed my mind while reading this. Programming has the potential, if we can get past the more superficial, and avoid the dark and exploitative sides, seems to be the only real way to get to a point where we can have a world with quality affordable consumer goods without this kind of rape and murder in exchange for riches.

  Doesn't that make you stop and think? Programming has that potential. Sure you can exploit and rob and do horrible things with it as well, but what other profession has the potential to let society have the potential of sustainable affordable riches for all WITHOUT this kind of murder for gain (for that's what it is, part of the life of others taken by force to obtain riches)