by timw6n on 4/18/14, 11:01 AM with 78 comments
by ekpyrotic on 4/18/14, 1:37 PM
Until the 1950s, young people in the west were expected to live with their parents until they married and settled down. Just crack open a Victorian novel. (A few HNers have noted that this is true in India, China and Japan; but it was also true in the west.)
This changed all at one and all of a sudden under the Baby Boomers. Young people left home earlier, travelled the world, experimented with drugs. Let's forget that the Baby Boomers were responsible for psychedelia, the protest movement and flower power.
Here's what I'm saying: The Baby Boomers were a blip, premeditated by the astronomical rise of the USA in the global economy. Money and jobs were everywhere all of a sudden, endowing people (and especially young people) with the new freedom to experiment. Something that is not true now: We're facing increased global competition from the East and the west's manufacturing base has been hollowed out.
In terms of global and Western culture they were a non-stereotypical blip, the result of very particular and unusual economic and social conditions, a few flicks of the second hand on the our cultural watch.
So, are the Baby Boomers justified in criticising this generation for returning to former cultural values and habits?
Personally, I don't think so. It's hard not to feel it smacks of myopia, of judging others through the wrong side of the binoculars.
by rayiner on 4/18/14, 1:02 PM
My wife and I are "grown ups" in the sense that we both are done with grad school, have professional jobs, and have a kid. Yet, my mom lives with us during the week and we spend nearly every weekend at my parents' house in D.C. Not because they need our support, but because we need theirs'. This is a living situation that wouldn't be unfamiliar to my grandparents back in Bangladesh, where the expectation, back then, was that a young couple would move back into the husband's parents' home after marriage. It's novel relative to what I encountered growing up (in the U.S.), but it's not "new."
Various studies have shown that Millenials are closer to their parents than any generation in recent memory. They are not only likely to live with them after graduating college, but turn to them regularly for career advice, take them on job interviews for support. It's the opposite of the rebellious streak that characterized the baby boomers.
by bicx on 4/18/14, 2:49 PM
My brother, on the other hand, did not have that kind of luck. He tinkered around in college, then joined the Navy. After a couple years, he was discharged early (but honorably) due to panic attacks while attempting one of their most difficult programs. Now he's back at my parents' house as he pursues his degree in environmental science (the closest thing he could think of that matched his interests) at a community college. My family noticed he seemed a bit depressed as his 25th birthday approached last month. Turns out he was pretty upset that at 25, he hadn't gotten anywhere in life.
I feel sorry for him because he's compared to me. I am not a better person. I just have a more studious, middle-of-the-road demeanor, and I know what I want to pursue. There was no moment where I was like, "Man, I need to settle down and pick a career." It just happened, and I was blessed enough to have had a straight path to the "American dream."
My brother isn't in that stage of emerging adulthood by choice. He wants to be viewed as a respectable adult. It's just that he was not gifted with well-defined, lucrative goals, and he doesn't want to do something he hates simply for a good paycheck. I wouldn't have either. It just worked out better for me, and now I look like I have my shit together.
by noelwelsh on 4/18/14, 1:38 PM
0. The more competent you are at something, the more interesting it becomes. Expecting your first job to be interesting is setting yourself up for disappointment.
1. Autonomy, at least for me, is really important.
2. Nobody hires someone else to do the most interesting work available.
3. The best jobs aren't advertised. Visibility, or self-promotion, is important to some degree.
The awesome thing about computing is the capital costs are so low you can short circuit a lot of the career progression. You'll probably still make a mess of your first N years, which is why venture capital was invented ;-)
by johnrob on 4/18/14, 6:09 PM
by pistle on 4/18/14, 1:48 PM
This is a social phenomenon being critiqued using self-reported social scoring without tying it back to either theoretical or applied economic models.
If large swaths are asked fairly banal "Will you get what you want out of life?" questions with waaaaaay more rigorous subjective and practical analysis a bigger picture can't be assessed.
Elders "ridiculing," which is really a cynical take on what people older than adult children are doing, are expressing some insight into the pitfalls of delayed productive income acquisition. This article also flies in the face of trends that HN loves.
We've seen articles questioning and advocating against ageism, as if this was somehow unique to HN-fields of interest. Whether it is pop music, high art, math, or technology (or many other fields), the people who "make a difference" and live those envious lives of freedom to walk the path to becoming all-stars in their field and/or lives... those are young people.
Sure, some fields require great levels of extended experience or knowledge only acquirable through time, but the people getting everything out of life most frequently start early with a passionate drive for exactly what they will become.
The ascendant efforts of the young from about 18-30 is vital, innovative, and disruptive. I dislike the "disrupt everything!" mantra that leads the naive into the ditch. Fail fast can easily lead to lost opportunities to establish strong financial and technical (or creative) foundations that enable the later bloomers their time in the sun.
It's tough at the top and there are only so many who can get there now or ever. For the rest, it's best to be able to get productive to start saving early to establish a life where you can get ENOUGH out of life to not hit some anxious or depressive state later when you see doors closing to attaining EVERYTHING.
It's efficient to be able to minimize suffering as you go versus rolling the dice that you will suddenly find a calling later.
Feast upon life to learn everything you can. Deconstruct suffering and you'll find ways big and small to constantly create a life that you wouldn't trade for some amorphous "everything." The destination (goals) is usually only a milestone in the journey you are already engaged in. "If you don't stop to look around once in a while, you might miss it."
by MattyRad on 4/18/14, 6:51 PM
When my mom asks about my current job, I sometimes repeat that phrase, and she gets all huffy and annoyed that I don't view my current job as enjoyable. Sure, my job is satisfying in small ways, but ultimately I'd rather be doing something else.
I just mention it because my mom and dad show two sides of the generation mentality discussed in the article: the "buckle down and get a job" type, and the "you should do what you love" type.
by mml on 4/18/14, 1:27 PM
by diegomcfly on 4/18/14, 2:26 PM
If you don't have a place to live, food to eat, and shelter ... you "emerge" as an adult pretty quickly and figure out what you "want to do with your life" by DOING WORK you don't want to do to get said food, and shelter (i.e., to survive).
What is the saying? An absence of alternatives clears the mind marvelously.
by jimbokun on 4/18/14, 2:07 PM
That's the bar for onerous, now? And this is an attitude we, as parents and as society, are obligated to encourage, support, and indulge?
by johnnyg on 4/18/14, 3:06 PM
No, no you didn't.
by trustfundbaby on 4/18/14, 7:24 PM
Credit is much harder to come by, jobs are more difficult to get without a college education (addressed in the article), and there are also changing attitudes to sex and relationships that are becoming more pronounced with millenials (specifically casual sex/relationships) that make it easier for men (probably women as well) to put off marriage and having children.
WRT to credit, when I got out of college back in 2003, I got a credit card with a $5000 limit in my mailbox which I started using immediately, I was talking to my brother who graduated last year and he says that those credit card offers are few and far between now, and that even when you get your hands on one, the credit limit is about $1000 ..... this blew me away. I couldn't have started my business without that $5000 credit card and much of what I have now revolves around the skills/experience I gained from my initial self-employment 10 years ago.
The economic realities have such profound implications that its giving rise to the "sharing economy" http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/09/the-chea... and changing the way corporations are marketing some of their products to this demographic http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2021715711_d...!
Lots more going on there than meets the eye IMO.
by pnathan on 4/18/14, 2:37 PM
That is a big difference and a good way to sum it up.
Unfortunately, lots of jobs are both needed and full of drudgery.
by ashleyjohn on 4/18/14, 5:46 PM
by pawn on 4/18/14, 1:21 PM
by morgante on 4/18/14, 2:54 PM
In general, I've always hated these "generational" descriptions. They're guaranteed to be woefully inaccurate for many people in the generation, yet provide ammunition for ageists to discriminate against young people.
For my part, I haven't lived at home since I was 17 and, at 21, have a very "serious" job (which definitely pays the bills). I'm certainly not an outlier in this regard. The people who fail to do this are simply that: failures. (Though that failure isn't necessarily their fault.) Where does this fit in his theory of extended adolescence and infantilization?
by Beasting247 on 4/18/14, 2:31 PM
by taybin on 4/18/14, 2:03 PM
by tommo123 on 4/18/14, 12:44 PM