from Hacker News

Technology’s Man Problem

by metermaid on 4/5/14, 10:54 PM with 69 comments

• by dredmorbius on 4/6/14, 1:38 AM

  Ashe Dryden, along with other members of the Ada Initiative, launched a smear campaign against a man who was cleared of all charges in a domestic dispute.

  One AI member, Leigh Honeywell, tweeted that she "want[s] anyone who googles [name] in the future to know he was arrested for DV" (she now tweets under "ennui as a service"). Several members of Ada, including Ashe, have signed a statement against him.

  The Ada Initiative continues to host a page devoted to the charges which have been fully dropped against the man in question.

  While I'm all for, and have encouraged, women in tech, and have worked with some very talented women (and men), a line is crossed when people move from advocacy to specific smear campaigns against specific individuals. There are courts and a justice system for a purpose, and while they may be imperfect, taking the law and justice into your own hands, publicly, in what is almost always a very, very messy situation, is crossing a line I cannot countenance.

  I really can't stand by Ada, Ashe, or others associated with it.

• by doctorpangloss on 4/6/14, 12:40 AM

  The article is great and pretty accurate.

  >Women often take on the role of product manager, or P.M., which entails the so-called soft skills of managing people and bridging the business and engineering divide. Yet even though this is an essential job, it’s the purely technical people — not the businesspeople — who get the respect in the tech industry.

  Well, I think PMs are universally reviled, male or female :)

• by aaronem on 4/6/14, 12:01 AM

  Oh, hey, Ashe Dryden! Last I ran into her, she was busily advocating an overt hiring blacklist because some people on 4chan made fun of a blog post. I'm surprised to find her quoted in such a relatively even-handed article on the subject.

• by vezzy-fnord on 4/6/14, 12:19 AM

  Computer science wasn’t always dominated by men. “In the beginning, the word ‘computers’ meant ‘women,’ ” says Ruth Oldenziel, a professor at Eindhoven University of Technology in the Netherlands who studies history, gender and technology. Six women programmed one of the most famous computers in history — the 30-ton Eniac — for the United States Army during World War II.

  This is misleading.

  First of all, it confuses "computer science" with "programming". Yes, programming certainly had high female presence back then. However, it was also largely considered a menial job - number crunching. Computer scientists were still majority male.

• by msandford on 4/6/14, 3:25 AM

  The articles I haven't seen yet:

  1. Welding's Man Problem

  http://www.aikenstandard.com/article/20130125/AIK0101/130129...

  2. Nursing's Women Problem

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_in_nursing

  3. Hooters (and others) Women Problem

  http://blogs.findlaw.com/free_enterprise/2009/04/can-men-be-...

  I get that I live in a bubble surrounded by only tech news. But when I was in school I knew plenty of women in nursing and it seemed as though the lack of diversity wasn't keeping them up at night. The median nursing salary in the bay area is definitely competitive with and possibly better than programming.

  http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/registered-nurse/s...

  http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/computer-programme...

  I also get that there are plenty of dudes in tech being giant assholes or chauvinistic or sexist or misogynist or whatever other words you'd like to call them. But why is that so much more of a problem than the obvious sexism in other areas? What I mean is why is there a NYT article on male computer programmers behaving badly and not one on male welders behaving badly? I'm not suggesting that either one should get away with it, bad behavior is bad behavior. But why is it newsworthy in tech and not in welding?

• by ianvanness on 4/5/14, 11:24 PM

  "Today, even as so many barriers have fallen — whether at elite universities, where women outnumber men, or in running for the presidency, where polls show that fewer people think gender makes a difference — computer engineering, the most innovative sector of the economy, remains behind. "

  With younger demographics showing far less bias towards gender in polls and elsewhere, and with the tech scene bringing in so much young talent, why is it that non-males are still not accepted as peers by the general male tech crowd? If anything, shouldn't the tech community have accepted non-males long before other industries given these circumstances?

• by dcre on 4/6/14, 2:24 PM

  I sincerely hope the average HNer reading this more or less agrees, but does not comment. I'd have a hard time stomaching the idea that these comments are actually representative of the community.

• by dropit_sphere on 4/6/14, 2:56 AM

  Both men and women would benefit from learning more about nerd culture and women:

  http://calculatedbravery.wordpress.com/2014/01/21/on-nerds/

• by Beasting247 on 4/6/14, 4:02 AM

  > "A culprit, many people in the field say, is a sexist, alpha-male culture that can make women and other people who don’t fit the mold feel unwelcome, demeaned or even endangered."

  Wait, did someone just call programmer culture an "alpha-male" culture? That's hilarious.

  When are people going to stop bitching about there not being enough women in <insert industry of choice>? Who cares? Like another comment said - nobody complains about there not being enough men in nursing.

  I'm really sick of this whole victimization mindset that a lot of women embrace. In any male-dominated industry, there are bound to be cases of sexual harassment and misconduct. Nobody condones that. And frankly, there's really not much more anybody can do to fix it.

  Technology and programming are among the most meritocratic industries in existence. All it takes is a computer and an internet connection. If you can code well and build great things, nobody cares whether you're a woman or some 13 year old nerd with Asperger's who gets bullied at school.

  Oh and if you're outraged by some dumb boob app that a couple guys coded for fun at a Hackathon, you have your head way too far up your ass and need to stop taking yourself so seriously.

• by auvrw on 4/6/14, 4:11 AM

  from the title of the article, i thought this was going to be about the fact that there are a lot of tech jobs to distribute among a small number of people (male and female) compared to some other industries...

  ... immediately realizing that the article is about a very real difficulty (gender imbalance) for many lines of work, i immediately stopped reading, because based on the title alone, i suspect it's more of the (unfortunately) usual points.

  for my two cents, i certainly would like to see more female programmers &/or mathematicians out there and am completely baffled about why, especially in academia, where it can be significantly easier to get into some math programs as a grad student, there aren't more women trying it out. perhaps because of articles talking about how problematic math and programming can be for women rather than about successful female mathematicians and programmers? i mean, there are definitely negative experiences that need to get out there, but i hope they don't obscure the fact that there are women in math/cs areas that have positive experiences as well.

• by hashberry on 4/6/14, 3:25 PM

  The article is out for vengeance. "Titstare" isn't even a real app, but satire. The article uses this joke as an example of technology's "man problem."

  Men: you cannot make sex jokes in public, especially at tech conferences. Any sexual innuendo will be labeled misogynistic. Don't forget about the two guys who got fired after joking about "forking" and "dongles."

  Male co-workers can make crude jokes between one another and laugh about it. But say anything sexual and if a woman hears it, you will be labeled sexist, misogynistic, and reported to HR or shamed on Twitter.

  And women wonder why they feel excluded from their male peers...

• by softatlas on 4/6/14, 1:45 AM

  I remember a co-worker inviting to his place, with others also invited. He asked me if I had had sex with a female coworker since, I suppose, that upon first meeting her, we got along very amiably at work.

  It seemed like a confession of character moment, though it was expressed in a joking manner. It was a kind of contextual humor.

• by applecore on 4/6/14, 2:23 AM

  Is $5 typical for beer served at a dive bar in NYC?

• by nickthemagicman on 4/6/14, 2:52 AM

  This article is hilarious. It neglects to mention that computer science programs(engineering in general) is 90 percent guys.

  Engineering is probably the hardest major from a math and hard work perspective.

  Almost seems like women want a voice without having to do any of that pesky work.