from Hacker News

Mt. Gox Receives Subpoena From Federal Prosecutor: Source

by antonID on 2/26/14, 2:10 AM with 100 comments

  • by downandout on 2/26/14, 5:09 AM

    Bitcoin as a concept would be attacked by governments under even the best of circumstances. I don't know why the major players in it have to be so dumb and/or unscrupulous as to draw this level of negative attention to it.

    As for Mt. Gox itself, its principle(s) will be aggressively prosecuted and sentenced. The New York US attorney behind the subpoena is Preet Bharara. Preet is responsible for shutting down online poker and obtaining the longest sentence for insider trading ever handed down, among other such dubious "accomplishments". He has never met a camera he didn't love, and will take the opportunity to thrash not just Mt Gox but also Bitcoin itself in the media.

  • by appleflaxen on 2/26/14, 4:52 AM

    Where were these zealous prosecutors during the global financial meltdown in 2008? It would be nice if people went to jail for fraudelently representing mortgages.

    I'm fine with Gox getting investigated, too, but justice shouldn't depend on who you are.

  • by wernerb on 2/26/14, 2:28 AM

  • by nwh on 2/26/14, 2:25 AM

    Article without the paywall — http://archive.is/JWikk

  • by captainchaos on 2/26/14, 5:14 AM

    Ok, at the risk of sounding completely naive...

    I've been following this story for a while, and it seems that no one can say for sure if this is embezzlement or gross incompetence. Based on leaked memos it seems to be most people are learning towards the latter, but I'm curious if there's any evidence either way.

    Based on the claimed transparency of Bitcoin, I would have expected embezzlement on this scale to have been noticed earlier, or at the very least have people be able to follow the Bitcoin trail to determine what is actually happening.

    Am I wrong or just missing something?

  • by ck2 on 2/26/14, 3:04 AM

    New York wants to be the big dog in regulating crypto-currency, which almost feels like they are protecting and working at the behest of the banking industry headquartered there.

    But I do not understand how a NY prosecutor can subpoena a Japanese business?

  • by pjan on 2/26/14, 3:50 AM

    Also: Japan authorities looking into closure of Mt. Gox bitcoin exchange

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/26/bitcoin-mtgox-japa...

  • by pmorici on 2/26/14, 2:48 AM

    For anyone thinking, "O good the government is here to investigate and get our money back" I wouldn't get too excited I'd say this is more likely them wanting to investigate Silk Road related Bitcoin activity than any desire to help those screwed by Gox.

  • by fnordfnordfnord on 2/26/14, 2:31 AM

    It's not much of an article as it is only two paragraphs. Get your popcorn ready for when stuff starts hitting PACER/RECAP.

  • by gojomo on 2/26/14, 2:35 AM

    Wouldn't it be funny if malleability has confused MtGox about its own hot->cold->hot wallet transactions, and it really has way more coins than it knows?

    Then, when MtGox finally has someone with half a clue patch things & rescan, 700K BTC reappear, and they post on their homepage, "Nevvvvvermind – it was all a bad dream."

  • by fabulist on 2/26/14, 2:27 AM

    s/underscoring the risks of bitcoin/illustrating the risks of speculating, especially with companies long known to be unreliable/g

  • by captainmuon on 2/26/14, 10:00 AM

    If the government really wants to kill bitcoin, its a bit surprizing that they are pursuing this legally. Instead they should make it such that people cannot sue for their losses. They should define legally that bitcoin is neither money nor commodity, that it is of zero value, and that this is so obvious that it is impossible to commit fraud with it. It's your own fault if you pay money for something such obviously fraudulent. (Not that this is my opinion!)

    If customers would not be able to raise claims, and frauds would get away with impunity, this would quickly destroy any honest businesses in bitcoin, and reduce it to a fringe phenomenon some people use to buy drugs anonymously.

    I'm guessing the government really doesn't want to do that, because while it would reduce bitcoin to the underground, it would become even more uncontrolable. Rather, they'll try to canalize it through the existing banking system. Its already hard now to buy bitcoins anonymously, and it will probably become harder.

  • by theklub on 2/26/14, 11:42 AM

    I can't help but feel like at this point in time buying Bitcoin and helping sustain the price is making criminals rich.

  • by geuis on 2/26/14, 8:28 AM

    Stop linking to paywall sites, please.

  • by einhverfr on 2/26/14, 5:42 AM

    Well yeah....

    Keep in mind this means nothing other than that a crime is being investigated. We know a crime took place. It's a good thing it is being investigated.

    What we don't know is what crimes are being investigated and the article doesn't provide any of that information.

  • by thinkcomp on 2/26/14, 5:15 AM

    I'm not a lawyer, but what's likely to happen here is the following:

    Soon, Mark Karpeles and/or Tibanne Kabushiki Kaisha and/or Mutum Sigillum LLC are likely to be charged with at least one violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1960 for not having a money transmission license in any state. Even though Karpeles broke state laws, it's a federal crime by extension. He may be extradited from wherever he is to the U.S. to stand trial in federal court.

    What's interesting is that Coinbase, BitPay, Dwolla and every other current/former Bitcoin exchange company is in the exact same boat legally speaking, and yet people still trust them because of deliberately misleading statements they've made on a regular basis, such as last night's joint announcement. None of them are operating legally, whatever they may say. But mostly they don't say, because my company is already suing two of the three over this very fact. Many of them can be linked to Mt. Gox; Dwolla has already stopped dealing with Bitcoin as a result of NY DFS's subpoenas to the best of my knowledge; US DHS also investigated Mutum Sigillum LLC and froze its assets.

    The irony is that Mt. Gox is most likely in Japan in the first place because of the insane state regulatory structure in the U.S. So our state MTLs push entrepreneurs out, leave consumers high and dry, and make crashes of the sort we're witnessing now more likely. We need a federal regulatory regime; it's a shame that the other entrepreneurs and investors affected--including the ones who run this site--are too cowardly to come out and say it publicly as I have. There's only one exception: Greg Kidd, who is invested in a number of payment companies, including Coinbase, and now works for Ripple.

    http://fedpaymentsimprovement.org/wp-content/uploads/Greg_Ki...

    Here's my suggestions for what should happen now:

    http://www.thinkcomputer.com/20140214.cfpbcomment.pdf

  • by tomelders on 2/26/14, 9:50 AM

    If a bank lost everyones money, we would expect governments to subpoena them. This is news like "Sun rises for 1.6425 × 10^13th time in a row" is a headline.

  • by negamax on 2/26/14, 7:46 AM

    This month. There's no date. Let's not relate it to recent events. Actually this kind of insinuates what's happening.

  • by MWil on 2/26/14, 2:21 AM

    nonpaywall?

  • by yeukhon on 2/26/14, 4:12 AM

    Ah. I was sort of right :)

    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7296597

    Though not FBI, this is interesting.