from Hacker News

Meshnet activists rebuilding the Internet from scratch

by projectmeshnet on 8/8/13, 7:53 AM with 29 comments

• by logn on 8/8/13, 8:21 AM

  Unfortunately this article requires paying money to read if you are not a subscriber. I don't think there's anything wrong with me writing my own--original--free ending to the free preview:

  Those links mean that instead of communicating through Internet pipes run by ISPs, that communication is completely free. Further, any peer can connect with any other peer. So as peers join up, the network grows. Eventually if one peer in this cluster also has an Internet connection, then the network also does. Obviously bandwidth constraints limit infinitely sharing one ISP account with an arbitrary number of people. However, if that peer has purchased space within a data center, a cloud-hosted machine, then Internet access is realistic for those currently without access. In effect it not only allows nodes to connect, it allows any node to provide Internet.

  So, the ultimate aim is not to replace the Internet. And it's not to piggy back on the Internet. It's simply to let computers communicate freely.

  And part of free communication, in every sense of the word, is that communication must be encrypted. One node must be free to communicate directly to another without others listening. The idea of free speech is not merely to allow freely speaking to the public or a group, it's to allow individuals to communicate amongst only each other, while at the same time not restricting them from communication to a wider audience should they choose.

  The way this security is implemented is through IPv6. Each IP is associated with a public key and shared secret. It would be feasible to incorporate a negotiated secret. But as part of the initial phase, the idea is to test the core of the project: cjdns (on Github as https://github.com/cjdelisle/cjdns/). This "invite" system, in effect, controls the spread of meshnet and limits the possibility for abuse of the network, since each member of a meshnet must share a secret to bring a new node in.

  Plans are underway for rapid expansion of the meshnet. But careless growth is not possible, due to the current nature as a circle of trust, and importantly, the ability to de-peer malicious users.

  This basic model of adding peers and sharing secrets is now being automated. And I'd tell you their specific plans, but that's a secret. Pass it on.

• by marcuspovey on 8/8/13, 11:02 AM

  Yawn. Paywall.

  But meshnets are a very interesting area of research. It can only be a good thing to remove the main gatekeepers (ISPs) out of the equation.

  I wonder if you could take advantage of the opening up of various whitespace spectrums (thinking specifically in the UK, but I imagine this is happening elsewhere in the world).

• by morsch on 8/8/13, 10:45 AM

  Meshnets got a whole lot more interesting when suddenly everybody started running around with a potential wifi node in their pocket.

• by cLeEOGPw on 8/8/13, 9:46 AM

  Node to node communication may work fine when there's few locals connected to each other. But if the project somehow would cover the whole world, wouldn't latency with a faraway node come close to infinity? Besides, how would the messages find it's way to a node, let's say 1000 nodes away from you? Natural development would be that few nodes would become much larger than the others, and those nodes would handle small nodes around it and communicate with other large nodes far away, but then the large nodes would become like ISP's and could be compromised by the government, effectively crippling the network. But it could be that the node-to-node communication would only be used as a fallback option for the information that is unable to pass through the bigger possibly under control nodes... I guess I should take a look at it.

• by marssaxman on 8/8/13, 7:09 PM

  I've met a bunch of the people involved in the Seattle Meshnet project, since they have held meetings and set up a repeater station at ALTSpace, a makerspace I'm involved with. They're an enthusiastic bunch; the project hasn't hit critical mass yet but they are slogging away diligently.

  I don't really understand what CJDNS does, and for the short term you can't really participate in the meshnet without a pretty solid understanding of the technologies involved, but I personally know quite a few people in central Seattle who would be happy to host repeaters if the meshnet people can get a turn-key installation package set up. I hope they'll reach that point soon.

• by oleganza on 8/8/13, 12:07 PM

  Mesh would be much more stable and efficient when it's based not on voluntary free-of-charge participation (like bittorrent, which does not work well for not-very-popular items), but on economics. If everyone pays everyone in Bitcoin for bandwidth and storage, the competition among computer enthusiasts would create a robust working network with lowest prices possible without any fancy algorithms to detect "leechers" and "seeders".

• by norswap on 8/8/13, 11:19 AM

  Could someone clarify what the purpose of a meshnet is? Only encryption of all the contents? Or also hiding who talks to who? That last one seems quite difficult to achieve to me, in the presence of an attacker that permeates the network (the internet).

• by northwest on 8/8/13, 11:59 AM

  Remember when WiMax was being discussed? How come it still isn't being sold yet? Could it be that it's because providers felt threatened?

  I suppose it would take meshnets to a whole new level.

• by northwest on 8/8/13, 11:09 AM

  Question:

  Could it be interesting to have the main project leaders set up a website allowing everybody to pay hackers to come to your home and set up the required equipment ready-to-use?

• by gboudrias on 8/8/13, 7:11 PM

  I'm part of the the Montreal mesh net. It's really cool to see news of the movement on a mainstream platform.

• by _pferreir_ on 8/8/13, 11:04 AM

  paywall. nothing to see here, move along...

• by hack37 on 8/8/13, 8:15 AM

  behind pay wall...