from Hacker News

Attention, Shoppers: Store Is Tracking Your Cell

by tippytop on 7/15/13, 1:45 AM with 86 comments

• by at-fates-hands on 7/15/13, 4:07 AM

  While still in college, one my senior papers involved analysis of patterns of movement in a large local bar/nightclub. The owners had changed the layout of the club several times and were losing money every weekend. After spending time doing some simple observations, I made a few suggestions and after a two week period of implementation, they were making 8-10% more per weekend.

  I'm always surprised when I see people who are convinced technology can solve their woes when all you need to do is make some observations. No wi-fi tracking will tell you there's a huge clearance rack blocking your view of several other items. It also won't tell you if a merchandise row is so narrow only one person can stand in front of a display.

  Technology is great, but in most retail or commercial environment's, you still need feet on the ground.

• by gojomo on 7/15/13, 4:50 AM

  To opt out, before entering a store, turn off your phone and put on a ski mask.

  "Are you here to rob us?"

  "No, I'm just opting out of your facial-tracking systems. Which way to kitchen appliances?"

• by Amadou on 7/15/13, 11:00 AM

  But while consumers seem to have no problem with cookies, profiles and other online tools that let e-commerce sites know who they are and how they shop, some bristle at the physical version

  That is a profoundly ignorant statement to make - the vast majority of web users have no concept of the scope at which they are being tracked online.

  If there was a sign spelling out all the trackers on every web page like there was a sign in the store, you can be sure a whole lot more people would be "bristling."

• by darxius on 7/15/13, 2:48 AM

  I wonder why they're using WiFi signals instead of just analyzing the video feeds from their surveillance systems. It would probably glean the same information.

  Either way, I don't have a problem with this as long as they aren't intercepting communications or anything private like my name and recognizing me every time I enter the store. If it's information that they can obtain without identifying me, there isn't much I can complain about. It's their store and as long as my rights are intact I'm cool with it.

• by dm2 on 7/15/13, 11:34 AM

  Here is a video about the Euclid software. This service makes the Wifi tracking even scarier because it can track across different stores, then they probably sell that data. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4W1GIRHC_4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k86DxCqfHjY

  Here is a way to opt-out of this particular service. https://signup.euclidelements.com/optout

  It seems like it would be trivial to tie in the location tracking with the products someone purchases and if you are using a rewards card (like most grocery stores have) then the store has all of your information tied to your MAC address.

  It's not just stores, any place could have these systems set up. Malls, airports, stadiums, schools, or even your workplace.

  Is it possible to obscure or modify a phones wifi strength when not connected to a network to prevent this tracking?

• by nness on 7/15/13, 3:08 AM

  I don't particularly see an issue with this, but I welcome any insights to convince me otherwise.

  You have no expectation of privacy when in public. My question is whether there is any difference to someone following you around a mall as you go through your shopping journey (whether with cameras or in person even), as compared to someone following your phone?

• by jlgaddis on 7/15/13, 5:49 AM

  Who's going to build the mobile application that monitors the user's location (via GPS) and automatically sets the wireless NIC's MAC address to a specific value whenever the user is near one of these stores (and isn't connected to a real wireless network)?

  Surely having a handful of shoppers who all have the same MAC address in one store at one time would screw up their analysis a little bit, no? It would certainly make it much more difficult to track a specific individual.

• by Houshalter on 7/15/13, 7:45 AM

  I'm not as disturbed by them tracking their customers (I mean they've always had cameras in stores and recorded all your purchases anyways), as I am to the amount of effort and efficiency that goes into maximizing the amount of stuff they sell people. Like putting the milk in the back of the store so you see 50 other things on the way that you also might want to get, or putting ".99" at the end of the price tag to abuse our inability to estimate numbers.

  It's the same tricks basically, just far more efficient. Making the optimal store layouts so customers spend as much time inside as possible or get exposed to as many other items as possible. Use machine learning algorithms to set the prices so every price is as high as it can be before people stop buying it entirely.

• by waster on 7/16/13, 4:35 AM

  So at the cost of usability (for the cell user), wouldn't a product (or homemade solution: Hello, tin foil!) that blocks RFID/wifi signals wrapped around the phone also foil (ouch) this tracking? I'm thinking something like Blokket (http://howsyourrobot.com/2012/09/26/blokket-blocks-rfid-wifi... - I have no direct knowledge of this product, BTW; just googled RFID/wifi blocking).

  Obviously this won't work for facial recognition, but I see that's discussed in other comments.

• by 16s on 7/15/13, 12:17 PM

  Were it not for their name, "Cookies" would not be generally accepted. We should have named them "Roaches", then no one would say, well it's just a roach.

• by lifeisstillgood on 7/15/13, 6:28 AM

  How does wifi tracking work? How do you do directional finding? I assume they cannot have a thousand access points per store?

  Frankly I would assume using computer vision to track heads like molecules in Brownian motion would be cheaper simpler in all cases.

  However this one creeps me out far more than NSA. Odd really

• by p6rny on 7/15/13, 4:35 PM

  can Google be doing this to the whole city where they provide free WIFI for the city?