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Ask HN: Am I committing career suicide?

by skurry on 5/28/13, 5:51 AM with 86 comments

• by rwg on 5/28/13, 7:18 AM

  After a decade at the same employer, I was completely burned out -- I had worked 60+ hour weeks for many years, with nothing resembling a "real" vacation since ~2004. I didn't enjoy the bulk of the work. I wasn't learning anything applicable outside of my employer's niche. I was being given projects that I was completely unqualified to work on (but I was the least unqualified person, so they fell to me).

  After one particularly brutal day that didn't see me home until well after midnight, I did some serious soul-searching. I gave my (pretty generous) notice the next day.

  I did the math and figured out my vacation payout + vacation time I had lost over the years due to the yearly cutoff was about three months, so I planned to take a three month vacation. Sleep all day, learn a programming language, drive to interesting places, read books, play video games, whatever sounded interesting that particular day. Recharge the ol' batteries. And that's exactly what I did.

  After my three months of R&R were up, it was time to start looking for a job. I applied for interesting-sounding jobs that I thought I was qualified for. Silence. I contacted some friends and asked about opportunities, then sent CVs to the few that said, "Yes, we have positions you should apply for!" More silence. I continue(d) to apply for interesting jobs, resisting the urge to just scattershot resumes at everything I'm qualified for. (I think that's tacky, and I'm not that desperate yet. Plus, I don't want another job I'll hate and/or burn out on.)

  My three months turned into six months...and then nine months...and now stands at 11 months. I haven't been able to get a single interview -- phone, e-mail, in-person, or otherwise. My savings and expenses are such that I'm okay for another two years or so, but I will need an income of some sort eventually.

  Maybe my skill set is crap. Maybe my CV is crap. Maybe it's my employment history gap. Maybe it's karmic retribution. I can't be certain, but my money's on the gap.

  tl;dr: Your mileage may vary, but I'm pretty sure I Darwin'd my career by taking time off without doing anything that I could put on a CV to explain the gap in my employment history.

• by GuiA on 5/28/13, 6:14 AM

  Do it. Your savings exist precisely for that sort of situation.

  Take time off, and figure out what you want to do. Maybe it'll be freelancing/indie development. Maybe in 6 months you'll want to come back to the tech world. Or maybe you'll just say "fuck it" and go teach high school mathematics or help out with IT infrastructure in third world countries or whatever.

  The point is: you only live once, do it.

• by obviouslygreen on 5/28/13, 6:40 AM

  5+ years bankrolled on savings from working full time? Well done. I mean damn, well done.

  You are not crazy to give it up. I can't speak from experience; I am in my early 30's and gave up a lower rate about six years ago to good result, but that's just anecdotal. It seems to me you have a very strong position: You have serious industry experience and, from your description, very strong financial responsibility. It's almost irritating that this should be impressive, but it is: You are a whale among greedy remoras. ;)

  It is certainly obvious to you that this is a risk. Being single and without dependents does help, but that also brings to mind the question of priorities. You're in a position, now, where you earn enough to wrap up your retirement reasonably early, if this pace keeps up. If that is what you want, then you might consider that starting a family -- if that's a priority for you -- could actually make your current income sources very, very valuable in a meaningful sense.

  If your primary goal is work satisfaction... then yes, I would say this is an excellent opportunity to step out of your current environment (calling it a rut or anything else would paint a biased picture, I think) and potentially do something more rewarding, in terms of personal fulfillment. I would not go into such a venture with the expectation of more lucrative results, though. You seem to be in a good position. There are certainly many startups that succeed, and that won't change. But the reality will always be that more fail.

  Be careful. You are in a good position, and you seem to know it. My suggestion would be to try and decide what it is you would be happiest doing, or at least deciding on things you want to accomplish. If you can manage that, then you will at least have something interesting to work towards. If not, then you may need more time before you can do something new and expect it to end well or at least satisfy you.

• by rolleiflex on 5/28/13, 6:17 AM

  > My savings could probably sustain my current lifestyle for 5-10 years, if not more.

  You're successful,

  > I'm single, no kids.

  and you don't have obligations.

  Considering these, I'd quite safely say this is a game you are not likely to lose. While it's a decision you need to make by yourself, your worst case scenario is better than lives of most people in the field. Plus, taking a year or two to work on startups as far as I can see is quite normal and even seen in a positive light in many places.

• by shepbook on 5/28/13, 6:49 AM

  I may be echoing others, but I to say to go for it.

  As for the "gap", this is simple. Start a business. If you're going to be making and selling mobile apps, you'll want a basic corporate entity behind you anyways. Now, instead of being "unemployed guy building apps" you're "Founder of Mobile App Development Consultancy" or something along those lines.

  Given what you stated about not liking the corporate world, that's completely understandable. I certainly prefer smaller companies, even startup, bootstrapping level ones. J2EE and .NET aren't strongly used outside of the big enterprise-y corporate world. Given your experience with Java, I'd say you might find Clojure to be a great move and still be able to leverage your Java past.

  Go for it! Get yourself an LLC or similar and build some apps. If you have 5+ years of financial runway, you should certainly be able to find something self-sustaining in that time. :)

  Jump and don't look back!

• by bearwithclaws on 5/28/13, 6:25 AM

  Do it, and come to Malaysia.

  Savings that lasts 5-10 years in the states would lasts you at least 20-30 years here. Most people here speaks English fluently, and the startups/hackers culture here are vibrant and growing.

  My good friend quit his cozy programming job in Canada and spent a year travelling and hacking in Malaysia + Singapore. He left with more money than when he started (took very very few consulting jobs in between). Oh, and tons of great (food) memories: http://malaysianfoodporn.com/

• by TeeWEE on 5/28/13, 6:39 AM

  I only have 4 years of experience in the field. ~3 years at a big social network in europe. We got beaten by Facebook. Then I switched to Consultancy work, yes the J2EE weblogic corporate mangers-all-over-the-place kind of work.

  But after a year I stopped and joined a startup in the mobile industry. I coudn't be more pleased.

  To you: - Do it! - The gap doesnt matter, if you can explain properly - Dont start working fulltime alone, either have a companion, work somewhere were similar people do the same thing, or have a second job on the side. This is mostly for social reasons. - If you want to work in the startup world, try to do something apart from j2ee. But I see you want to do mobile dev, good choice!

  You should think twice about what your motivaions are, do you want to become an entrepeneur? Or you just want to be happy with your job? Dont make the wrong choices for the wrong reasons.

• by polskibus on 5/28/13, 6:31 AM

  If you are risk averse (assuming you are because you have lived corporate life for 12 years) I'd recommend working for a small company first, for at least 6 months. There are many aspects of running the company and your own product which you don't see in a corporation. This will help you prepare for launching your own enterprise.

• by rdl on 5/28/13, 8:15 AM

  I'd probably try to emphasize "left to go do a startup" on your resume, whether or not it works out, whether or not you approach it as an 80 (or even 40) hour/week thing, rather than "took time off".

  But, otherwise, this is absolutely good for your resume, I think. Assuming there's no huge change in the market, you should be as employable if not more. Maybe try to stay involved in the .NET/J2EE developer community once a month or so, keep in touch with former coworkers, etc. in case you decide to go back to that instead of mobile, though.

• by infogaufire on 5/28/13, 6:18 AM

  Neither you are crazy nor you are the only with such feelings. I am a 3x entrepreneur, have sold 2 companies and 25 years old. I am working for the acquirer of my last company for last 14 months and I am already tired of writing code for someone else. I am all set to leave my six figure salary and keep hacking & building products that inner me wants to build. Believe me, getting a job at the same pay scale will never be a problem for you. Go ahead and start working on your own ideas full time.

• by tuantruong on 5/28/13, 11:13 AM

  Lets me tell you my story, I was in UK working for a small consulting company as .Net developer, then I decided to come back to Vietnam and started my own company , outsourcing back to the company that I have worked for. The company has started ok with 4 people, but over the last year or so, besides doing outsource, we stated several projects but none of them has gone well so far. Further, the company has been hit by the economic crisis as many other companies, so its finance hasn't been in a good state. Due to my personal financial need since my marriage, I have once again got a corporate company working as PM/Developer with an high pay ( in Vietnam), but at the same time try to keep my business alive. It has been one year since I started working here, and even though I don't think I have done a bad job with the salary increase, but I honestly never have been enjoyed a single day of it. I am determined to quit the job and get back to my business as it has started to pick up again, we also preparing to launch a mobile product shortly.

  All in all, I think the stories that you guys have put here is such a good inspiration for me to get back to start up world, enjoying every day of coding and hacking. Hopefully, one day my product will make to the top of hackernews.

• by osekkat on 5/28/13, 7:04 AM

  Do it, and make sure to use your time off wisely. You have enough savings, you're single. If you're gonna do it, now is the time. I'm in a somewhat similar situation. I've been working in the Bay Area as an ASIC validation engineer in a big semiconductor company for the past few years. I'm 30 years old. I've also gotten quite bored with work, so on the side I've been doing some mobile development (Android then iOS). I just very recently (Friday) started interviewing and it seems that the demand is pretty high. (I've gotten several requests on linkedIn before even publishing any apps). The transition for you should be even smoother since you have a background in CS. I feel that you can't go wrong by taking some time-off, work on your own projects then decide whether to join a company or start your own. I don't have as much savings as you, so my goal is to quit my job and find another job in Mobile Development, while working on my own project on the side. In all cases, best of luck!

  Here is the app that I released about a week ago (shameless plug): https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/dish./id648176152?ls=1&m...

• by skurry on 5/28/13, 6:32 AM

  Some more data points and thoughts:

  - I have 23 days of PTO per year, which is generous for the US. I did several two week trips the past years, mostly to Asia. My job is fairly low stress, I work less than 40 hours per week. But still, as soon as I set a foot into the office, it feels like all life energy gets sapped out of me. Maybe it's the fluorescent lighting? The crappy HVAC that oscillates between freezing and muggy? The open office plan we moved to last year? The constant sitting? As soon as I'm on my bike on the way home, I feel better.

  - Worst case, if I do it: I get lazy and don't do anything during my time off, and won't have anything to show for at the end. But that's entirely in my control, and I won't have anyone to blame but myself.

  - I read many blogs and comments about this. A recurring theme is people saying "I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to bring myself to go back to work after taking such a long time off." While I can see the point, aren't they implicitly admitting that there is something wrong with their current situation?

• by stitchintime on 5/28/13, 6:17 AM

  Not sure if this is a popular sentiment, but the Bay Area is expensive. I would probably move to a cheaper area for a while if I wanted to work on cool stuff on my own for a while without taking a nice salary.

• by s3b on 5/28/13, 6:21 AM

  Would it be possible to make a few apps on the side, see if they get any traction and then decide whether or not to jump? You could try taking a month off (without resigning) just to work full time on this. This way you could figure out if you're passionate about mobile apps without actually giving up your job.

• by raarky on 5/28/13, 7:52 AM

  Oh wow, I'm actually trying to make that decision right now too. Thanks for posting this.

  I've been building something in my spare time and between freelance gigs. It's at a good working prototype stage. I just want to spend a solid month polishing, plugging in minimally required data, release it and see what happens from there.

  At the same time, I've just been offered a new contract which will put my project on the slow track for a good half year but it's money coming in.

  Being able to focus on something that I'm interested in is amazing. My creativity flows and I see results occur at a pace that keeps motivated even more.

  Yet, I don't know what decision to make - Financially sound status quo or happy pipe-dream.

  but... I'm reading everyone's comments with great interest.

• by rabbitjeff on 5/28/13, 6:37 PM

  No, you don't.

  I think it might help to change the way you look at this. It is not only a problem but also a big chance to find something that fuldills you again. I went to the same situation but with lot less savings. It was damn hard and still isn't all sunshine, but i do not regret leaving my boring well paying job at MS for a second. Problems will occur but they are also solved on the way.

  Read Books on the topic, make a solid plan, and then learn to trust in yourself and let go. Might sound oversimplified but sometimes you have to make a change in order to get what you really want in the end. You're not alone in this. There were thousands that did the move. Best of luck.

• by ikhare on 5/28/13, 6:34 AM

  People here have given great motivating responses. But In don't think anyone has answered the whether it would be hard to get an job again after a big gap if you decide to get one again. It seems like you want to continue coding in some form, so really there will be no gap of experience in your resume.

  If anything finding people who have built products themselves and put them out there is great to see and are hugely valuable to an enlightened organization. Whenever I interview people this is always a fun part of the conversation. I find that those people are very likely to be tuned to building great products and are the kind of people I want to work with.

• by mendozao on 5/28/13, 6:20 AM

  I'm not an expert or anything, so take my personal opinion with a grain of salt. If you aren't happy, do something about it. Otherwise, in a couple years, you will wake up miserable feeling like you have cheated yourself out of the most precious thing we can never get back - time. You are the CEO of your own life. Enjoy your journey, take risks, and don't be afraid of being a little foolish - so long as it is in a smart way. Good luck!

  (FWIW I skipped out on traditional job offers after getting my masters to begin a startup)

• by stitchintime on 5/28/13, 6:05 AM

  You're definitely not crazy. I am not as far into my own career as you, but I would even say that it seems the crazy thing to do, in your position, is to do nothing. You want more from life? Get it! You will be able to find a job later, guaranteed, especially if you kept hacking after leaving your big-co job! (Do re-adjust expectations, though. A start-up will not pay you nearly as much as your last job did, although you should get stock. You know all this, but it will still be a big change.)

• by noelwelsh on 5/28/13, 6:28 AM

  Do it. The kind of people who will look down on you for taking risks are not the kind of people you want to work for.

  In general, it sounds like you've taken a very safe / corporate path with your career. Pays well, but it's boring. That might be the problem. I did a year in a big company and haven't worked any sizeable since. I know guys who earn six figures a year working at banks, but the crap they have to put up with -- what's the point?

• by hardwaresofton on 5/28/13, 7:37 AM

  So just as everyone else has said in this thread -- sounds like you have enough of a cushion to do just about whatever you damn well please for at least 2 years (taking into the account the possibility that you decided to live as a rockstar at ~5x above your current means)

  What I do want to say -- and I'm really unsure that I should be saying it at all (since I'm not your dad, but then again, this is the internet)

  Maybe you should start at least considering settling down somewhere? I don't mean settle down somewhere and enter a company you hate for the rest of your life just for job security, but more like pick a place (or search for) a place you want to be in for a long time

  With IT/software skills like yours, I doubt there are many people who won't see your value at a technical company, and that will enable you to get a job in most places, but being transient forever (even if you're writing awesome software) doesn't seem like a wholesome plan

  I'm definitely assuming too much, and I don't know anything (outside of this post) about you or your goals, but just figured I should at least make the point

  Also, your Honolulu-as-a-place-to-live idea sounds amazing

• by covertgeek on 5/28/13, 12:51 PM

  I don't think you're committing career suicide. Sticking around indefinitely while you're miserable will not only suck the life out of you, but your drive to do well at work.

  Might I recommend a book called Quitter by Jon Acuff? He's done a couple of books about making the leap from the corporate world to a more fulfilling "dream" job. It was a good, quick read.

  If you've got the savings and a decent plan, I'd say go for it.

• by pbreit on 5/28/13, 6:34 AM

  If you are a decent programmer, you should be able to find some sort of satisfactory-paying work even with the "gap" you describe. And if you truly have 5-10 years of savings, you have more than enough cushion to try working for yourself for a year. Try to retain some discipline as you go. If after a year or two you're not able to make anything work, consider looking for a boss again.

• by macarthy12 on 5/28/13, 6:22 AM

  Come live in Asia for 6 months. Cut your costs, have a break.

  Word of warning - Its easy to take a break and end up getting nothing done. Set boundaries.

• by revathskumar on 5/28/13, 6:35 AM

  I am right now going through the similar stage that I wanna do something for myself. I am just 4 years in this carrier and have no savings. Still I thought to take a chance, but my friends didn't allowed me to do it.

  So right now I am working for myself during the nights, sacrificing some of my sleep.

  If I where you or have some saving, I will definitely go for it.

• by makaimc on 5/28/13, 6:18 AM

  You're absolutely not crazy. I'm 30 and in the midst of traveling the US meeting with software developers for 5 months. Every minute, both the ups and downs, have been worth it. Check out my site codingacrossamerica.com and shoot me an email if you're interested in figuring out whether this is the right path for you.

• by carsongross on 5/28/13, 6:12 AM

  Relevant:

  http://lionoftheblogosphere.wordpress.com/2013/05/25/sucks-t...

  http://blogaborty.blogspot.in/2013/04/no-country-for-old-pro...

• by waterlesscloud on 5/28/13, 6:23 AM

  Ask yourself this- Do you want to work for anyone in the future that would hold this against you?

  You don't sound like you do.

• by schumacher on 5/28/13, 6:50 AM

  There will be no gap in your resume as long as you can exactly explain what you have done in these years. Get a business registration and try the self employment. If you fail your new employer will appreciate your "research" time in development and learning.

• by ronyeh on 5/28/13, 6:41 AM

  Here's a dude who took a year "off" with his family and cranked out an iPhone app.

  http://www.npr.org/2013/05/20/183910777/seeing-the-northern-...

• by sliverstorm on 5/28/13, 7:00 AM

  I can't tell you where to go or what to do, but if you just hate what you do, might as well try to find something different.

  Many people in this world do not enjoy their jobs, but you appear to have the resources and the freedom to try to find the job you like.

  P.S. Here's an idea. Have you considered going back to school for a Master's, if you don't already have one? That could give you more personal time to explore side projects (as well as hopefully working on something cool for your degree), handily explains 2-3 years of gap in employment history, and you come out with a degree. Thus allowing you to hedge your bets in case you have to rejoin the corporate world later.

• by webdisrupt on 6/4/13, 1:57 PM

  Sometimes you have to take a few steps back in order to achieve or figure out your so called dream job. Bare in mind cash is a limited motivator as it will never fulfill the drive and passion you have to achieve more. Don't take me wrong money is important but personally I would prefer having a mediocre salary for a while and know that I am on the way to achieve the "real" thing.

  You sound like you are having the usual symptoms of wanting to do your own thing. Remember that if you don't try you will never find out. This is me speaking from experience. Best of luck!

• by pathik on 5/28/13, 6:18 AM

  Maybe. But if you don't do it now, it'll just become harder and you'll regret not doing it all your life.

  I did something similar, but I did it much before 30. Haven't regretted it so far.

  Go for it.

• by schiang on 5/28/13, 6:39 AM

  I think you should go for it.

  I'm currently in a similar situation. I started learning how to program about a year ago and even got a job at a startup. I really want to learn iOS dev because just being a RoR dev will limit my career path real soon. I quit my job a few weeks ago and have been spending all my time learning iOS dev. My goal is to find another job after I'm comfortable with iOS.

• by noonespecial on 5/28/13, 7:07 AM

  I can't speak to the resume "gap", but I can promise you that this will make you a better developer by a ridiculous amount.

• by _pmf_ on 5/28/13, 6:50 AM

  > I'm in my mid-late thirties, will I even find a new job with a gap in my resume like this?

  Certainly not at a big company.

• by mehrdad on 5/28/13, 8:46 AM

  I'd suggest quitting your job and traveling around the world for a couple of months. Go to unfamiliar countries such as India, China, Japan, Korea, Peru,....

  It will open your mind and give you life changing experiences. Stop working on some app...Go for something big. it will come to you

• by jakedahn on 5/28/13, 6:52 AM

  If you've got that much money saved, you should be working for yourself, making awesome applications and changing the world.

  Don't worry about a gap in your resume, you'll probably make something notable on your own that could carry your career/life into a new direction.

• by thesmileyone on 5/28/13, 12:33 PM

  Do you think you would fare well at designing and coding app's for the iPhone or Android? It would be a shame to waste your skill, but you could put it to good use and make some $$$ at the same time, at your own pace?

• by bertjk on 5/28/13, 7:11 AM

  If you have 12 years of experience, are in the Bay Area, and can do mobile dev work, you should have no trouble finding a new job paying six digits if your entrepreneurial plans do not pan out.

• by jfoster on 5/29/13, 7:35 AM

  This might help. The Jeff Bezos regret minimization framework: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwG_qR6XmDQ

• by bdreadz on 5/28/13, 6:30 AM

  You know how to code. Take time off if you have savings. You will find a job if you desire going back to work for someone else.

• by lucidrains on 5/28/13, 6:23 AM

  if anything, i feel like you should be more employable if you decided to pursue mobile development rather than continue on with .NET.

• by bobrob on 5/28/13, 6:18 AM

  a change is as good as a holiday....also sounds like there is a dearth of stimulating conversation at your current gig.

• by merusame on 5/28/13, 6:29 AM

  Who, if not you (!!!), should do this?