from Hacker News

Pen and Paper

by zds on 1/3/13, 10:40 PM with 76 comments

• by spacemanaki on 1/3/13, 11:53 PM

  "I’ve found that having a pen and paper that you enjoy actually makes you use them both a lot more."

  This is exactly why I experiment with pen and paper combinations every now and then trying to find something I like. I find the act of note-taking very beneficial, both for work and for self-study of math, CS, programming, etc. Just writing my thoughts down solidifies things a bit better, so encouraging that by making the writing enjoyable is what I've strived for.

  I don't even spend that much, just allowed myself to pitch what didn't work and find something I like. My current favorite combination is National Brand Computation notebooks ($12) which I like for being quite large at nearly 12"x10" and having thick smooth paper and the largest (08) Pigma micron pens ($2) which are almost like felt tip markers. It almost feels like writing on a whiteboard.

  Of course, what I like specifically isn't that important, but I definitely recommend experimenting with pen and paper if note taking is something you want to encourage yourself to do.

• by casca on 1/3/13, 11:30 PM

  TL;DR: OP finally bought an expensive pen on Kickstarter; they like it.

• by mosburger on 1/4/13, 3:27 AM

  This reminds me of sunglasses. Never understood spending over $100 on them as I always lose them - so I'd get crappy $10 drugstore sunglasses and lose them in a week.

  Then I got my first pair of Oakleys before a vacation and not only do I love them, I don't lose them anymore, and I take very good care of them 'cuz I actually 1.) care about them (they're super-comfy!), and 2.) care about the investment I made in them.

  Not saying they'll ever pay for themselves (unlikely), but I probably had them in the same time span I would've had four crappy pairs that would've been scratched before now.

  I imagine pens are very much the same - buy a crappy ten-pack of disposable pens and you'll lose them all in a month. Buy this titanium thing and own it for years.

• by larsberg on 1/4/13, 2:07 AM

  > what is the deal with Moleskine notebooks

  For better or worse, if you write in a Moleskine with either a fountain pen or a Pilot G2 ink pen, you will probably find that it bleeds through so much that you can only really write on one side anyway. I'm not sure that addresses his concern with thread-bound notebooks and writing on the "back" page, but that's been my experience with them.

• by xfax on 1/3/13, 11:41 PM

  I've tried fountain pens and have never been satisfied. Perhaps it's my left-handedness or the inferior quality of the paper I use, but it never felt "natural".

  I frequently purchase ballpoint and gel pens from JetPens.com and am particularly fond of the Pilot Hi-Tec-C: http://www.jetpens.com/Pilot-Hi-Tec-C-Gel-Ink-Pen-0.4-mm-Bas...

  What are some of your <$10 pens that you frequently go back to?

• by lucb1e on 1/4/13, 1:51 AM

  I myself type much faster than I write, so it's personal I guess.

  One thing that I don't understand is why people start kickstarters for pens. I'm honestly curious here because I can't understand it: The market for pens is saturated, and 3000 people apparently back a pen kickstarter (for a non-remarkable pen) for an average of $98. Why?

  I understand the value of having something special, but I fail to see what makes it more special than some expensive pen that you can get in shops.

• by habosa on 1/4/13, 2:20 AM

  I spend a lot of time in front of the computer, but I am also very particular about my pens and paper. When I want a pencil, I only use a Pentel P205 0.5mm. I've had a single P205 for over 4 years now and it's never been lost or broken. For pens I've finally settled into the Pilot Hi Tec C 0.25 or 0.3mm in blue or black. I have two all-metal bodies for the cartridge I got from Kickstarter, the Render K by KarasKustoms and the P1 by PremierePen. I find that having a nice pen encourages me to write down my thoughts more often and makes my notes much more organized. For paper I'm less picky but I like Muji products for random notes.

  TL;DR get a nice pen, it's the best.

• by k-mcgrady on 1/4/13, 2:32 AM

  >> "I do not understand why you’d want a notebook that was not spiral bound."

  I don't like spiral bound and I have several different types of Moleskine. The spiral bound break too easily on me and the pages often accidentally tear out.

• by ruswick on 1/4/13, 1:53 AM

  To me, writing has always been an exercise in utilitarianism, and is done out of necessity. I can't comprehend why having a nicer pen would cause one to write more. Writing is not some sort of art that one is meant to appreciate (not that it can't be, but most people don't consider marking a sheet of dead tree matter with ink to be some sort pleasurable experience unto itself.) Writing is something that has to be done (generally because typing is inappropriate or impractical) regardless of one's enjoyment of it. I would write just as much even if I hated my pen, just like I would travel as much even if I hated commuting or I would wear my shoes just as much even if I hated shoes. All of the aforementioned things are things that life requires you to do, regardless of how one feels about them. Certainly, one can strive to maximize their enjoyment of those things, but a lack of enjoyment doesn't compel one not to do them.

  Moreover, if he continues to use the .38 inserts, (which, I might add, are great) the only added utility of this $60 pen is that it has greater mass and, because it costs more, has some sort of innate "fanciness" value. I just don't understand why one would pay $60 for a metal shaft whose utility doesn't extend beyond making the user feel important or opulent. After all, he lauded this pen not because of its objective superiority, but because it made him feel good.

  I just don't get it. I think I'll stick with my Pilot G2s.

• by possibilistic on 1/4/13, 5:12 AM

  I'm incredibly persnickety about my pen and paper. I just don't feel as creative when I'm using writing instruments that don't "work" for me. Plastic pens just don't feel right; they're too lightweight and kind of clammy when you write for extended periods. (As far as plastic pens go, the only model I could really adapt to was the Office Max Tul line http://www.officemax.com/brands/tul/tul-pens/product-prod226... )

  For awhile I used the steel-bodied Zebra 701 and 301. I preferred the gel ink option of the 301, but I liked the heavier body of the 701. (There are guides online for modding the 701 to accept 301 refills, but I never gave it a try.)

  I ultimately stumbled on this pen/ink combo that I'm absolutely in love with:

  1. Rotring Rapid Pro. http://www.jetpens.com/Rotring-Rapid-Pro-Ballpoint-Pen-1.0-m... It's small, lightweight, and feels adequately balanced. The knurled grip is perfect, too.

  2. Parker Gel Ink. Gel is much smoother and starker than ballpoint. It does smear if you're not careful, though.

  3. 20 lb legal pads, eg. Docket Gold. http://www.amazon.com/63950-Docket-Letter-Canary-Sheets/dp/B... Heavier paper feels kind of like writing on parchment. The pen glides better, and the paper won't tear when you remove it.

  It's an investment, but it works for me. Also, I never lose my pens. Once the initial cost is sunk, it pays for itself in terms of daily contentment. I enjoy writing and drawing much more.

• by CKKim on 1/4/13, 11:42 PM

  At first this looks like another submission about the value of objects, a la "The Best" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4755470, "The Worst" http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4838109, and countless others in between.

  However, it's really a (roundabout) way for Peter to tell us how much he likes using pen and paper, and what advantages he sees in them over the alternatives.

  This is the right way to look at objects: suitability. Not best, not cheapest, not highest-quality, but most suitable for the job.

  Crucially, by the end, the strongest point made in the first 80% of the article has not been addressed:

  "The problem with pens that cost more than a dollar is that, well, you lose them at the same rate you lose pens that cost less than a dollar."

  I look forward to a follow up post when he has misplaced it, given up using it for fear of misplacing it, or perhaps treasured this wonderpen so much that it is still faithfully by his side after 6 months of note-taking. In short: how suitable really is it?

• by kondro on 1/4/13, 7:22 AM

  For those wanting more info about fountain pens (the most superior writing experience in my opinion), check out the following links:

  http://fpgeeks.com

  http://www.inknouveau.com

  http://www.youtube.com/user/sbrebrown

• by dowdyism on 1/4/13, 4:12 AM

  What Peter has actually discovered is that the pen market in the US is severely lacking compared to markets like Asia. No major US pen manufacturer is willing to step up and expand their offerings in office supply stores to match what they offer in Japan, despite the fact they are all subsidiaries of Japanese companies. Pilot, Uni-ball, Pentel, Zebra are all based in Japan and offer much superior products across the Pacific.

  This is why 95% of my pen and paper shopping is done online with vendors that import products from around the world. Going to Staples or Office Depot is like watching Groundhog Day. There is zero innovation, just the same old office supply cabinet stuffers that we have been stuck with for years.

• by Shank on 1/3/13, 11:29 PM

  "But why bother? Why bother spending any money or thought on pen and paper? Because, I’ve found that having a pen and paper that you enjoy actually makes you use them both a lot more."

  I found that about instantly after I bought a Moleskine reporter notebook. If I enjoyed using it, then any use case I'd delegate to something inferior (i.e. quick note taking on paper versus a smartphone or tablet) suddenly transitioned quite easily to pen & paper. I don't have any special pen, and I rock the pilot G2 Peter says he's switched from, but the notebook quality balances it out fairly well in my experience.

• by pmccool on 1/4/13, 1:18 AM

  Some things I just find easier with pen and paper. A pilot V-Pen (disposable fountain pen) and standard printer paper does me just fine. If I want to keep something for posterity, my mobile phone camera has plenty of resolution. If it's something ephemeral like editing I don't bother. I used to carry a notebook, but much prefer scrap paper + nice, scrap-paper-friendly, pen + camera.

• by d0gsbody on 1/4/13, 3:39 AM

  Using a paper + pen definitely forces you to focus in on the most essential points of whatever you're listening to. Good observation, OP.

• by niggler on 1/4/13, 2:44 AM

  Fell in love with the .3 mm lead drafting pencils and the blue books from college -- the notebooks are so small that the traditional resistance to wasting a notebook are negligible, and the pencil is so fine that I can write and doodle without worrying about varying intensities.

• by fogus on 1/4/13, 1:58 PM

  An observation that I made recently during a multi-day brainstorming[1] session. The managerial attendees were, in every case, decked out with multiple high tech gadgets while the technical types all used pen and paper for note taking.

  Just saying.

  [1]: I hate that term

• by solox3 on 1/3/13, 11:04 PM

  "I did not really understand the allure of having high-end pens. Don’t you just lose them?"

  Yes and No. All my cheap pens get lost in a jiffy, and all the expensive ones are kept in their shiny boxes, waiting to be polished every new year.

  Perhaps we should develop a "magnetic pen and shirt pocket" combo.

• by pmrondon on 1/4/13, 5:55 AM

  To write on both sides of difficult notebooks, I flip the book upside down (i.e., rotate the writing surface 180 degrees) when writing on left-hand pages. It's much easier to write that way with a fairly small loss to readability.

• by bryogenic on 1/4/13, 12:58 AM

  A nice non-spiral notebook that is easy to write on from both sides: http://fieldnotesbrand.com/ This plus a the same .38 Pilot G-2 is my pen/paper stack :)

• by Apocryphon on 1/4/13, 3:39 AM

  I prefer pencils to pens. Certainly, pens are more theatrical, with the finality of ink, but pencils allow for more mistakes to be corrected, and graphite smudges are less annoying than ink ones.

• by zinssmeister on 1/3/13, 11:02 PM

  LAMY makes beautiful pens.

• by morganwatch on 1/4/13, 9:50 PM

  my marine friend introduced me to write in the rain, http://www.riteintherain.com/

  the reporter notebook is perfect and you can dump the notebook in a pool, and the paper will still be dry.

• by jpswade on 1/4/13, 12:23 PM

  I'm done with paper like I'm done with pens.

• by xrt on 1/4/13, 4:44 AM

  Bic, Med, Blue, 29c. Best pen ever.

• by Tichy on 1/4/13, 12:54 AM

  Congrats, you are on HN. Marketing mission succeeded...