by route3 on 12/16/12, 4:31 PM with 54 comments
by callmeed on 12/16/12, 8:31 PM
Niches are markets. Dog walkers probably could use some kind of SaaS app. Restaurants desperately need better websites. And if you have a passion or (especially) deep knowledge of those industries/markets/niches, there's nothing wrong with experimenting with ideas.
No one is arguing against doing market research–in fact, multiple people stated that as the first step in the HN post mentioned. And I doubt the OP on that thread was saying "make some ideas up out of the blue with no basis in industry knowledge". C'mon.
by duopixel on 12/16/12, 7:04 PM
I can't envision the founder of Bang & Olufsen being indifferent to sound quality, or the founder of Herman Miller being indifferent to office furniture. I chose these companies deliberately because I don't know their founders, but I'm sure they were passionate about their field.
I can't fathom building a company for a market that might be lucrative, but is meaningless to me. I'd rather build 10 failed companies than create a profitable CRM for telemarketers.
by corford on 12/16/12, 8:00 PM
Despite having an entrepreneurial streak and coming from an entrepreneurial family, I was 29 before I finally decided to quit my job and pursue the idea I'm now working on. A big reason it took so long was because I was only willing to risk everything on an idea that I believed in AND had a demonstrated market. Having one or the other wasn't enough.
It isn't all roses though. Even if you think you've got a good idea and a valid market for it, it's still all for nothing if you can't get in front of and retain a critical mass of customers. That's the piece of the puzzle I'll shortly be faced with and I'm not relishing it.
by babuskov on 12/16/12, 11:15 PM
"Research the market" approach is good if you want to build a regular bootstrapped business. If you're building a startup, you should actually build an MVP and "Test the market".
Please don't get me wrong, but I still believe that building a couple of duds and failing is the better way to go. If you're building something truly innovative and disruptive, most people you ask during "research" won't even know that they need it.
by Tyrant505 on 12/16/12, 7:55 PM
by urlwolf on 12/16/12, 6:27 PM
If you dedicate 70% of the time to find the market and isolate the pain point, risk decreases hyperbolically :)
by hodder on 12/16/12, 7:13 PM
Coming from a business background, I just assumed that any idea people would put out there would have been small solutions to small problems... not "sitcom startups". I guess I was wrong. Really the only thing I was looking for were problems that could potentially be solved with minimal capital, and only 1 or 2 people. I wasn't looking to bypass market validation, or solving poeple's problems.
So, going back to the underlying question of starting businesses, how do you go about finding a market, finding problems, finding solutions to those problems, and finding paying customers? Preferably all without wasting a ton of time or money?
I hope Patrick replies to this thread and walks us through his process. Did Patrick start with the teachers market because he knew some teachers? Did he ask them what problems they had? Did they complain to him that were dying to play classroom bingo, that the existing solutions are terrible, and that they would pay him if he provided a solution?
I know some people involved in trades, some in education, finance, and consulting. Several of these people are either the business owners themselves, or have the authority to pay for software solutions to their problems. These are primarily offline markets. How do you suggest going from here, to paying customers? Asking them outright what problems they have? What problems they have that software might provide a solution? What problems they have with current software solutions they use?
by gelizondo on 12/16/12, 5:51 PM
I think that a lot of entrepreneurs also completely miss the concept of loss aversion. No matter how much pain your potential idea may be solving, some people are simply in love with their current shitty situation.
by jere on 12/16/12, 7:02 PM
by mthoms on 12/16/12, 6:40 PM
In the online startup community very little space seems to be devoted to methods and tips for researching markets. Perhaps this is an opportunity itself? Someone should research this niche and then start an on online information resource if the demand is there.
(edit: yes, I realize how meta this is)
by keithpeter on 12/16/12, 7:09 PM
Why do teachers need bingo cards? Because they need easy ways of making interactive and attractive games and puzzles for their students. And they will pay for stuff, but not huge amounts. You might get a monthly fee for a Web based authoring system if the figure is low. We have to be careful about putting students on Web sites, so probably not a fully Web based membership system.
Plenty of room there, UK has around 600,000 teachers, US must be 5 times that. Similar for Europe and other continents.
by sgdesign on 12/16/12, 7:04 PM
But what about passion? Identifying a market is one thing, but should you go after it if you don't have any interest for that particular domain? I know that's what Patrick did with BingoCardCreator, but I personally don't think I would be capable of that.
Of course market research is primordial, but I still think there's something to be said for following your passion and building something really cool. You might not make as much money, but on the other hand maybe you'll enjoy the process more.
by Matt_Mickiewicz on 12/16/12, 7:08 PM
In our case, we picked "Developer Recruiting in SF" as our initial market after years of personal experience dealing with incompetent recruiters, expensive job board ads that didn't produce results and talking to hundreds of founders/CEOs/CTOs who where all complaining about the same thing.
by rsobers on 12/16/12, 7:31 PM
In very rare cases where there is no market yet, ideas do matter (e.g., the automobile).
by mbesto on 12/17/12, 10:29 AM
by armenarmen on 12/16/12, 8:04 PM
by IceCreamYou on 12/17/12, 3:39 AM
https://pmarca-archive.posterous.com/the-pmarca-guide-to-sta...
by zeynalov on 12/16/12, 9:09 PM
by ahoyhere on 12/16/12, 8:48 PM
by eriksank on 12/16/12, 10:42 PM
by aaroncray on 12/16/12, 11:12 PM