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Framework Laptop 12 review

by moelf on 6/18/25, 3:09 PM with 383 comments

  • by nucleardog on 6/18/25, 6:46 PM

    > A good laptop, but not a good value

    Where "value" is purely monetary, I think that pretty succinctly sums up my experience/views on the Framework product line.

    They make good laptops, but you can generally get more for fewer dollars. If you're shopping on price, you can probably just skip right over their entire product line.

    That doesn't mean that their offering doesn't have value. It has value has a vote with your wallet for sustainable, repairable products. It has value as an easily repairable and customizable laptop. It has value in some esoteric use cases it can be customized into (e.g., 4xM.2 NVME slots).

    Would love to see some reviews just get this out of the way up front and spend more words on the product itself.

    Personally, I'm glad there's a company out there serving a market niche besides being the lowest cost, most value-engineered product. I don't mind paying a bit extra for that in exchange for the other value I get out of it.

    (And all that said--at the high end specs their prices get a fair bit more competitive. The price to upgrade a laptop from 16GB -> 128GB on Dell's site is _more than an entire FW16 w/ Ryzen 9 + 96GB RAM_.)

  • by Lammy on 6/18/25, 4:53 PM

    I really love the lavender — VAIO-core! I do wish I could get the other modules in lavender too, but I understand why they wouldn't want to fractally-complicate their stock keeping for those items.

    > the Laptop 12 can only fit a single DDR5 RAM slot, which reduces memory bandwidth and limits your RAM capacity to 48GB

    According to this post from a Framework team member, a single 64GB SODIMM will work too and just didn't exist yet at the time Intel wrote the 13th Gen spec, so they only advertize 48GB: https://community.frame.work/t/64gb-ram-for-framework-12-sin...

    > Old, slow chip isn't really suitable for light gaming

    I wish the reviewer would specify what phrases like “light gaming” mean to them. My FW12 is in a later batch that won't ship for a few more months, but I'm coming from a ThinkPad T470s where I already do “light gaming” (mostly TBoI Repentence and Team Fortress 2 with mastercomfig medium-low). I can't imagine the 13th Gen graphics would be worse in that regard than my old laptop's 7th Gen.

    Not having Thunderbolt seemed like kind of a bummer to me too, but then again my T470s has it and I can't think of a single time I ever actually used it for anything. I tried one of those external GPU enclosures once, and it was kinda cool just to see that such a thing was possible, but I've never been one to want to tether a laptop with a thicc cable lol

  • by criddell on 6/18/25, 4:14 PM

    Is it unreasonable to think Framework should be able to make a laptop competitive with the 5 years old MacBook Air M1? I get that Framework focuses on making repairable machines, but does that prevent them from making a fanless, hi dpi, good performing, long battery life machine?

    I wouldn’t expect parity with an M4 machine, but it doesn’t seem unreasonable to think they should be competitive with the much older M1.

    I have the same complaint with Lenovo (I usually buy ThinkPads). Where are the fast, fanless, hidpi, long battery life laptops?

  • by 0000000000100 on 6/18/25, 8:35 PM

    Our company bought about 4-5 Framework 13s, and boy were they a bad experience. All sorts of driver issues, random crashes, USB ports not working right, etc.

    Just about all of them had some kind of issue, which is really fun when your PM has a USB port not work randomly.

    Ended up going back to HP laptops, 30% cheaper for the same specs and they just work consistently.

    Would love to hear a hobbyist perspective, Frameworks are not a good choice for a business but I would be interested to hear if the replaceable parts / ports provided value for someone. My gut feeling is that something that can't be replaced easily in the Frameworks will die and it'll just end up being cheaper to replace the whole laptop.

  • by ItCouldBeWorse on 6/18/25, 6:55 PM

    > A good laptop, but not a good value

    One of my mentors had the great sentence: "I dont buy laptops- they suck, because they are tailored to transport. I buy desktops- and connect them via internet to flat transportable terminals. And desktops can be upgraded, merged, reused and send to the closet as server at the EOL-"

    And he was kind of right. For almost all purposes, even for gaming in a way- a remote desktop is kind of superior. Yes, stadia is dead- but for everything else- this shall do.

  • by rfwhyte on 6/18/25, 7:19 PM

    I'd be a lot more into Framework if they had come out with a single other GPU option than the Radeon 7700S that's been the only GPU option available since the brands launch. The 7800M and 7900M have both been out over a year or more, and Framework has made zero mention of when or even if those models would ever be available as upgrades for Framework devices. I don't even really play games, but for my video editing workloads, more GPU cores and VRAM make a world of difference, and the RTX 3070 level of performance out of the RX7700s that's thus far the only GPU option for Framework devices just doesn't cut it. There's just no way I'm spending $2500+ USD for a laptop that has worse performance than devices costing half as much at this point.

    They just aren't really delivering on the promise of "Future upgradeability" in any kind of meaningful way so far, and I just can't see the value in purchasing what's undeniably a wildly overpriced machine based on promises that have yet to be delivered upon. They've had plenty of time to communicate when, or even if, new GPUs are coming, yet there's been absolute radio silence from the on this front.

    Personally I think they need to focus more on actually delivering on the fundamental promise of the brand, that being future upgradeability, than on releasing new devices, as until they can demonstrate they are committed to delivering on their promises, I won't be buying any of their devices.

  • by keb_ on 6/18/25, 8:10 PM

    I was this close to buying the newest generation Framework, but in the end, could not justify the price when I found a far better bang for my buck and respectable self-repairability with a refurbished Gen 5 T14. It's even surprisingly thin and light.
  • by butz on 6/18/25, 6:41 PM

    We need more 10"-12" sized laptops. I regret selling my netbook in hopes a device with a bit better specs would come.
  • by theodric on 6/18/25, 5:11 PM

    > "A sturdy, thoughtful, cute design that just can't compete in its price range."

    People will pay untold thousands for a Mac, but God forbid when a PC manufacturer charges more than $599 for a laptop. If you're whining about the price, Framework isn't made for you. Go buy that Acer that you really want. The Framework is Sam Vimes' expensive boots that are made to last[1], and I've happily paid in full to get a pair.

    [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory

  • by daft_pink on 6/18/25, 4:08 PM

    it’s really hard not to just buy a MacBook Air at this price level.
  • by GardenLetter27 on 6/18/25, 4:25 PM

    The pricing is crazy, they need to halve the prices to be competitive with Apple and Lenovo on the high-end and ASUS on the low-end.
  • by wpm on 6/19/25, 4:44 AM

    I wish Framework made a small laptop with inverted-T arrow keys. I *hated* the full height left and right keys on my old touchbar MacBook Pro, and rejoiced when they wisely fixed that mistake.

    I don't need to go to a 16, the only laptop they sell with the proper arrow key arrangement. I need something small and cheerful as a secondary Linux laptop, and ugh, the 12 and the 13 come so so close, only to trip right before the finish line.

  • by WillAdams on 6/18/25, 4:01 PM

    As much as I like the ideals Framework is espousing, I'm seriously considering just making a folding shell for a Raspberry Pi 5 (maybe Pi 500) and a second gen Wacom One 13 (stylus w/ touch screen) and a battery.
  • by caycep on 6/18/25, 8:04 PM

    I was thinking of posting one of those Ask HN things re what ppl thought were the best laptops for linux in 2025, i.e. a Thinkpad, a Framework, a System76...or a MacBook running utm...
  • by class3shock on 6/18/25, 9:46 PM

    For anyone considering the 16, mine has had some teething issues (1. motherboard failed and I was sent a replacement 2. keyboard/touchpad started having a issue losing connection which I still need to submit a ticket for). The USB A port also feels like it's gonna break at some point (the rest seem fine). The linux experience has been about the same as on a Dell XPS 13 with the consistent issues being poor battery life and an inability to sleep properly. If I were to do it again I would get the 13 not the 16 but would still give it a shot.
  • by 9283409232 on 6/18/25, 6:44 PM

    > The Core i5 version of the Laptop 12 lasted around 10 hours in the PCMark Modern Office battery life test, which isn't stunning but is a step up from what the fully specced versions of the Framework Laptop 13 can offer. It will be just fine for a long flight or a full day of work or school.

    This is the key. Framework 12 is a model aimed at schools and corporations. I wouldn't be surprised to see a ChromeOS version of it appear for schools. Which is great if they can tap into that market.

  • by rkagerer on 6/18/25, 7:31 PM

    At the high end, what are some alternative laptops you would consider which are not Apple? (Preferably with full-sized arrow keys)
  • by ls-a on 6/18/25, 7:35 PM

    I can't believe companies are still squishing those arrow keys together. How could this terrible keyboard design drag for so long
  • by cjcenizal on 6/18/25, 5:51 PM

    I love the Galvatron color scheme! Feels techy yet nostalgic.
  • by username223 on 6/18/25, 5:18 PM

    I wish them the best, but if they can't compete with a MacBook Air on price despite Apple's huge profit margins, then maybe it's just not meant to be. People used to talk about paying the "Apple tax," but how many people are willing to pay the "Linux tax?" Mac OS is a similar Unix with the usual tools, and you can rent a VPS if you need Linux on an x86 sometimes. An MBA with an M4 will last 5+ years with a battery swap, and still probably perform better than whatever Framework releases in 2030.

    I guess I'm not the target customer for this. I can see myself tinkering with a desktop, but I'd rather just have a laptop that runs fast and long enough, and stands up to abuse for 3-5 years.

  • by UncleOxidant on 6/18/25, 6:57 PM

    From the pics there this laptop does not have a matte surface on the screen? Looks like a glossy screen. One would hope matte is an option.

    EDIT: Yes, it looks like matte is an option and they don't charge extra.

  • by paddy_m on 6/18/25, 4:35 PM

    What do you all use for a modern web development machine. 16GB of ram is no longer enough, I will soon upgrade to a new MBA with 32GB, but I still fear that won't be enough. I was looking at the latest framework and you can get it with 96GB of ram for $2k, that's $3600-$3800 for a mac and it's a much larger mac than I want. A quick scan of Dell and Lenovo non workstation class laptops didn't show any with more than 32GB.

    Memory used by various apps:

    docker VM take 8Gb for simple supabase images

    Firefox take 5-8GB

    BasedPyRight takes 2GB

    Nextjs server takes 2GB

  • by poisonborz on 6/18/25, 9:47 PM

    I just wish somebody would make a quality, powerful 2in1 laptop model with a long commitment. Thinkpad X Yogas were the ones, but their price/perf is down the drain and you can't get one with DGPU.

    There were some passable gaming models from others but with the usual QA issues of non-business products, and mostly one-off experiments/no refreshes.

    Dear HA, tent mode in a laptop is great, please generate more enthusiast demand.

  • by XorNot on 6/18/25, 10:43 PM

    When are we getting a decent keyboard?

    I would buy a Framework but the keyboard is as junk as every other laptop keyboard out there right now. The whole "MacBook" trend of laptop keyboards has ruined the entire industry.

    I want the old style low travel keyboard we had which still had some travel, a dense layout and actual shape to the key caps.

  • by red369 on 6/18/25, 10:52 PM

    Just my own anecdote about the Framework 13: I also felt I paid a MacBook price, but was much happier paying for future repairability/upgradability. I am so sick of buying things that feel disposable that I would a pay a premium not to.

    But I have a dream that Framework will change one thing that seems so trivial, and which would make my relationship with my Framework laptop and purchase decision so much simpler.

    If they can't ship replacement parts for faults/design flaws outside of their supported regions, which is understandable even if frustrating, at least allow me to use freight forwarding! I'm now living in a country Framework don't ship to, and so every small fault I have ever had with their product is permanent. I had goodwill for years, but being stuck with their design fault with the backup battery system has tipped me to no longer recommending buying from them. Obviously most people don't move countries, so this won't be an issue for them, but it's the feeling that they didn't seem to try hard to find a solution. It's the opposite of what I felt early on when I found their excellent documentation on faults, and their BIOS updates which addressed every complaint (adjustable brightness of power LED, limit charging capacity to a percentage).

    That feeling, and an effectively non-repairable laptop, are things I could have bought from anyone!

  • by nixpulvis on 6/19/25, 1:55 AM

    Am I the only one who thinks it's foolish not to have a darker color option? Or something more professional? These all remind me of kindergarten.
  • by pdimitar on 6/18/25, 8:32 PM

    I dig this laptop a lot but two things have put me off:

    1. No full AMD options. I don't trust Intel's thermals and performance for several years now. Maybe they have rebounded but I no longer care. For me it's "AMD or get away from me".

    2. No backlit keyboard. There is no excuse for this in 2025! I can forgive a lot of things, lack of biometric auth included, but no backlit keyboard is a cardinal sin.

    I don't care about price. At this point I am ready to pay extra for libre hardware that is 100% open/free source ready and even working best with it. I would easily pay Macbook prices for a machine. But going for Intel and for no backlit keyboard -- nope.

    Hope somebody from Frame.Work is reading. AMD has better thermals! (Or had, a few years ago, again, haven't checked in a while.)

  • by nektro on 6/19/25, 4:05 AM

    i run nixos on a framework 13 and it runs perfectly with all features working as i'd expect. running linux natively and knowing the good the company is doing good is priceless. will definitely be buying another someday.
  • by spankibalt on 6/18/25, 8:07 PM

    "Interesting" product placement (already within their portfolio, compared to the Framework 13). Sadly, they didn't succeed in making their unique features (compared to their and the market's other offerings) really useful by:

    1. Using substandard digitzer tech (something as performant and economical as Wacom EMR is needed). One cannot compromise here. I get that this might also be a licensing issue.

    2. Making the device too big. 10.3 inch or smaller is better; the possibility of using the device in a train's or on a plane's fold-away tray table, just to be stashed away in a cross-body or small messenger bag after use, is still a killer feature. More real estate (by way of screens, ultraportable projectors, et cetera) can always be thrown into the mix later.

    3. Choosing a wrong, or to be more precise obsolete, form factor. It needed to be a detachable for more modularity and flexibility. So, it's just another, admittedly very maintainable, premium-priced classic convertible. Its attached keyboard is a design-compromising dead weight and/or wasted space whenever not in use, very much like (the unused) maneuvering jets on older VTOL aircraft while in conventional flight.

    4. The display is not of primary importance here, but there's no need to make it that bad. Top-notch, wide-color, flicker-free IPS displays do exist.

    5. Sturdy but lightweight metal, not plastic.

    And so the search for a well-designed, modular SFF general computing device continues. They nailed the colors tho, and hopefully continue to set an example in Linux support. I wish them plenty sales, I'm sure the machine will find its fans.

  • by st3fan on 6/19/25, 1:21 AM

    No ARM64 option :-(
  • by lofaszvanitt on 6/19/25, 5:52 AM

    Looks fucking ugly. Even the logo is terrible. And the colours make you feel nauseous. Instead of nuthugging the compute power of these things, why not make something that looks and feels lovable. Is that so much to ask? Like the pixel phones, which are the ugliest, nastiest looking shitpile I've ever seen. And they slam it down the throats of people.

    In nature, even supposedly ugly things look OK, but in the artificial industrial world, things look ugly and out of place. I don't know how they achieve this. But it must be something around, 'Oh, this part costs so much', or someone who has power over things he/she shouldn't have, so we instead create these horrendous-looking monster machines that suck our souls.

  • by MangoToupe on 6/18/25, 9:10 PM

    Does anyone else see the touchscreen as a straight-up downside? I don't want that, have no need for it, absolutely do not want anyone touching my screen, and it's just more shit that can break.

    It looks fantastic aside from that, though.

  • by insane_dreamer on 6/18/25, 9:17 PM

    I have a Framework 12 laptop running Ubuntu. I use it mostly for dev (so I don't care about gaming, Windows, etc.). I mostly like it, but I have two gripes:

    - the touchpad is atrocious

    - battery life is mediocre

  • by Chronoyes on 6/18/25, 4:22 PM

    "60 percent of the SRGB color space"

    I never knew they made screens that bad anymore.

  • by dima55 on 6/18/25, 3:51 PM

    Is there a single person in the world that LIKES the half-height up/down keys?
  • by losvedir on 6/18/25, 5:51 PM

    > modular, repairable, upgradeable laptops

    In terms of phones, I largely disagree with the conventional wisdom that repairable, upgradeable, Androids are better for the environment, more cost effective for the user, etc than iPhones. It's true you can't upgrade the battery yourself, but that's a different quality from whether the battery can be upgraded. And iPhones have a much higher resale value, so they're going to end up in landfills more slowly. I personally bought and use a used iPhone 11 that came with a replaced battery, and it's great! Old iPhones have a long useful life after trade in and resale, even if people buying new models here don't see it.

    So I'd love to know how much this is the case for laptops like these as well.

    For example, "repairable" is useful to the extent that repairs actually need to happen, and it seems to mean "self" repairable, though again that's a different dimension from whether a service center can do it. And whether you need self repairable is not a thing about longevity, environmental impact (since repair centers suffice for that), but rather convenience and possibly price. But price isn't the factor here because the thing is so damn expensive to begin with.

    "Upgradeable" is useful if you want to.... improve a piece of it but not the chassis? Screen? How necessary is this? Do people really do that? I've been happy to use a laptop for half a decade or more, until finally upgrading everything all at once.

  • by throw0101d on 6/18/25, 4:58 PM

    Meta: the purple-lavender colour brings back memories of Sun's purple-blue logo:

    * https://dogemicrosystems.ca/pub/Sun/media/logos/Sun-Microsys...

  • by pengaru on 6/18/25, 4:14 PM

    Maybe I'm just not the target market, but I wouldn't pay even half the asking price for this.

    If I'm going to throw money away on overpriced underpowered laptops it's going to mnt's pockets. At least that's trying to be open hardware (reform).

  • by jekwoooooe on 6/18/25, 10:00 PM

    I like the idea of framework but after using a MacBook for years and having an iPhone, there’s just no competition. Even if the performance could be the same, you just simply don’t have the ecosystem. I can mirror my phone on my Mac (securely). I have unified clipboard and notifications. Not to mention all the other apps that just work across all my Apple devices. Enterprise and commercial software support… I could go on. An I used to run a fully riced out tiled arch setup.