from Hacker News

Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism

by arrowsmith on 6/14/25, 5:48 PM with 153 comments

  • by rbanffy on 6/14/25, 6:30 PM

    I would love to find a fundamental flaw in this reasoning, but I can't. It was, I guess, naïve to not expect exponential technological progress not to reflect in the political structures. The world is changing, and changing very quickly.

    The article doesn't get much into what can be the next step - fully autonomous drones that travel by night, charge by day, and find a target by themselves. A bit like landmines, with a shorter half-life, but highly mobile and intelligent enough.

  • by directevolve on 6/14/25, 7:04 PM

    Counterpoints and questions:

    - Non-wired drones can be jammed. It’s early days for building defenses against these attacks.

    - Non-state actors have far less access to the sophisticated intelligence needed to strike hard targets or secure against counter strikes.

    - Setting up hidden bombs for remote detonation on soft targets, like the freeway, has been possible, no need for drones. What other factors have been preventing these types of attacks? How do drones change those factors?

    If America was hunting Osama bin Laden today, I bet we’d have used a drone to kill him rather than sending in special forces. Likewise, if I was a cartel in the jungle or rebel force in the mountains, I’d be damned scared of the military or police coming after me with an endless wave of drones.

  • by FerretFred on 6/14/25, 6:33 PM

    Maybe this is one reason why in the US and latterly in the UK, the authorities are scrambling to introduce remote ID for drones with 249gm flying weight upwards: this includes operator/pilot ID. No doubt there'll eventually be some sort of AI-assisted pattern recognition/prediction that'll enable pre-emptive prediction of attacks.
  • by walrus01 on 6/14/25, 6:24 PM

    > Likewise, a drone factory is as vulnerable to drone attack as any other big, static, expensive piece of defense infrastructure.

    It's really not, the Ukrainians have geographically distributed assembly and testing, QC of quadcopters in the ten to fifteen inch propeller size class in many random and hard to find locations. A shitload of them can be assembled by a team of ten people working in a 2000 sq ft workshop in an apartment building basement.

    Large drone factories like something that can crank out shahed 136 size uav? Or like what the US mil calls a group 3 uav? Or group 4 sized? Sure, agreed, different thing.

    I agree with a lot of the points the author makes in this article but I question if they've ever assembled a 12" prop size quadcopter (large enough to carry a good sized amount of munition on a 10-15 minute one way trip) from components. It's something easy to distribute as a cottage industry.

  • by thomassmith65 on 6/14/25, 6:43 PM

    This scenario might play out, but if it does, it will be a temporary phase.

    What will bring it to an end will be a panopticon: video surveillance everywhere, stronger anti-encryption laws, AI monitoring the whole lot.

    I'm not an activist with an agenda here; it's just that there's an upper limit to how much drone terrorism a society will tolerate.

  • by darquomiahw on 6/14/25, 6:45 PM

    >What would you restrict, if you wanted to prevent any other actor from building drones? Batteries? Rotors? 3D printers? $17 Raspberry Pis?

    Explosives and fuzing mechanisms, which are already regulated in many countries.

  • by chrisweekly on 6/14/25, 6:23 PM

    The linked blog post is interesting, plausible / rational, and scary. Curious if HN'ers have insights about its pov and/or the "exitgroup" per se.
  • by imaginationra on 6/14/25, 6:34 PM

    Re: crypto and this "The collapsing institutional monopoly on violence will yield a renewal of local and personal violence, and a very messy working-out of a hierarchy suited to the new conditions."

    If prediction markets come to act as proof of life oracles- which they already have in a few cases- things get very dark very fast for everyone I reckon.

  • by mosura on 6/14/25, 6:32 PM

    One of the potential great filters is the absorption of all resources available to a civilization by a drone program intended to counter the drone program of a rival civilization.

    Historically nuclear arms used to be thought of as creating a hostage type scenario, where you can think of major cities of nuclear powers held hostage by their opponents. This is ok as long as the rival nuclear powers remain large and few in number such that their desires for your compliance do not contradict those of another nuclear power. The drone problem is going to become a variant of the “everyone has nukes now” except drones are so much harder to detect in idle states.

    Companies selling what they claim are solutions to this stand to print money, but it is not clear how it can really be done.

  • by cakealert on 6/14/25, 6:35 PM

    Would you need to harden individual targets if you design and deploy a defensive drone swarm that is always patrolling?

    It will successfully mitigate the cheap flying drone threat as long as they aren't launched close to the target. There will probably not be any more birds in human territory however since discriminating will be counter productive anyway, hostile drones will seek to impersonate birds otherwise.

  • by 4ndrewl on 6/14/25, 6:46 PM

    Yes, drones, but how is this much different in terms of strategy than packing a van with explosives like the IRA were doing in Britain in 80s/90s?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Staples_Corner_bombing

  • by jopsen on 6/14/25, 7:01 PM

    If the world reverses away from larges states that control violence at scale, the industrial base that makes computers, social media, crypto and drones possible will simply disappear.

    Technology with globalization might be possible (I'm not entirely sure), technology we have today without organized states, not happening.

  • by bambax on 6/14/25, 6:59 PM

    > In a hyper-mobile, distributed global economy, you can destroy billions of dollars in value just by reducing the speed at which goods and people can securely travel.

    Maybe, but the goal of terrorism isn't to destroy "value", whatever that is. It's to create fear and unrest and make life miserable for the people in the target country. "Economic disruption" doesn't do that. It doesn't actually do anything.

    Also, drones are not needed for any of this, or suicide bombers. It's trivial to leave a suitcase on a train or in the subway and cause hundreds of deaths and extreme mayhem. (Not trivial to make a bomb to fit that suitcase, but not very hard.)

    My theory of why it almost never happens is, there are actually very few terrorists.

    It's telling that the examples in the post are not from individual terrorists but from states.

  • by AnotherGoodName on 6/14/25, 6:48 PM

    It's the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_bomber_will_always_get_thr... of the 21st century where the bomber now costs less than a grand.
  • by blargthorwars on 6/14/25, 6:32 PM

    A single long-distance drone can be easily defended by a tiny drone that only has to intercept it.

    All things being equal, the advantage belongs to the defender, with a significant caveat: the defender must be aware of the risk and deploy defensive drones in advance.

  • by orbital-decay on 6/14/25, 8:51 PM

    Terrorbots look like a ton of other cyberpunk predictions which never really materialized. I think the most recent one was that crypto + anonymity would enable easy assassination bounties and cause a wave of contract killings. Yes, I know the article argues that drones could eliminate the human factor, but it's not convincing and still puts the cart before the horse, just like a lot of the commenters in this thread.

    One rule about "infinite scaling" predictions is that the real world always messes them up. Warfare has changed, that's true. The rest of the life is not so easy to change, and (useful) drones are harder to build than it looks.

  • by ndsipa_pomu on 6/15/25, 10:33 AM

    The example used of attacking rush hour highways made me think of just how effective that could be. However, maybe drones aren't the best means of attack - I'd think that an ordinary vehicle could simply have a passenger equipped with a suitable laser pointer and simply shine it into the eyes of a following driver. That would leave very little evidence and of course laser pointers can easily be concealed.
  • by therein on 6/14/25, 6:42 PM

    Looks interesting. I have quite a lot of domain expertise but taking you to a 99$ membership fee payment page right after filling the form leaves a bad taste.

    I hope ExitGroup.US doesn't think they are the first group to have this kind of collective.

  • by andruby on 6/14/25, 7:21 PM

    What's the state of "automated" drone defense systems that fire a laser at the drone?
  • by Teever on 6/15/25, 2:50 AM

    Why would this article get flagged?
  • by intended on 6/14/25, 7:07 PM

    God, yet another grim future.

    I won't call this a counter point, since what is argued is plausible, if not likely.

    What I will make a comparison to piracy back in the MP3 era. It really seemed like it would be impossible to stop it, and then came the RIAA, MPAA. Eventually governments managed to figure out the internet and how to deal with the small and nimble upstarts.

    But better still, (or less grim) is Netflix - when actual alternatives to piracy existed, people were more than happy to follow them.

    (Of course that era didn't last for long, but we'll mark that as the utilty limit of the comparison)

  • by johnea on 6/14/25, 10:40 PM

    So, drone strike bombings are totally on topic, but US wing nut assassins shooting politicians, DHS tackling senators and arresting mayors, and the marines deployed to US cities, is all flagged out of existence.

    It's been made quite clear, that HN is fundamentally a right wing-nut controlled forum.

    I think there are a lot of woke-nut people in the mix as well, maybe even an equal amount, but the wing-nut mode of the highly bimodal distribution just flags anything that demonstrates that we've elected a criminal to the office of US president. Whereas the woke-nut mode is tolerant of allowing discussion to carry on, even on topics they don't agree with.

    I guess it was to be expected, given the vulture capital origins of the platform...

  • by xnx on 6/14/25, 6:32 PM

    What does the "2A" crowd think of homing bullets (drones) that have a range of miles and can be delivered anonymously.

    Is this what he founding fathers were thinking of when they wrote the Bill of Rights?