by S0y on 5/22/25, 5:48 PM with 1040 comments
by adamors on 5/22/25, 5:52 PM
by kochb on 5/22/25, 6:49 PM
> In a news release, the Department of Homeland Security sent a stark message to Harvard’s international students: “This means Harvard can no longer enroll foreign students, and existing foreign students must transfer or lose their legal status.”
by achristmascarl on 5/22/25, 7:02 PM
Does ICE just have full discretion over SEVP? Can they do this to any school for whatever reason they want?
[0] https://www.dhs.gov/news/2025/05/22/harvard-university-loses...
[1] https://www.dhs.gov/publication/dhsicepia-001-student-exchan...
by neilv on 5/22/25, 8:22 PM
I didn't expect to see Harvard getting smacked around or humiliated like this.
Between Harvard, Yale, and possibly a few other schools, I thought they had influence throughout government. And that key figures in government were interested in maintaining and benefiting from that influence.
And a lot of that influence seemed aligned with national interests. (For example, getting things done with prestige connections, domestically and internationally. And the international diplomatic goodwill, when children of the world's wealthy and powerful go to prestigious schools in the US.)
Is some other faction at work now, or is it the same people as before? Are the power networks changing? If the distribution of power is changing, is it partly due to someone willing to sacrifice national power from which all parties benefited (and everyone else wasn't expecting that, or wasn't ready to defend against that from within)? Better questions?
by duxup on 5/22/25, 5:55 PM
by ithkuil on 5/22/25, 9:00 PM
However I don't understand how it's possible to single out a specific university.
Are there precedents for this kind of behaviour?
by Rapzid on 5/22/25, 9:20 PM
by remarkEon on 5/23/25, 4:47 AM
by arunabha on 5/23/25, 1:29 AM
People who lived under authoritarian regimes have long said that things move slowly at first, but after an inflection point, get real bad, real fast. It's one thing to understand that intellectually, quite another to witness it first hand.
Hopefully, the judiciary will block this particular madness, but then again, given the concerted effort over the past decade by Republicans to appoint right wing judges, the odds are not that great.
by ar813 on 5/22/25, 6:04 PM
by legitster on 5/22/25, 8:34 PM
History is repeating itself as a farce. It's not wild speculation to guess what might happen if these actions continue unchecked. It's education now, but it will be lawyers and judges next, and after that it will be leaders of tech and business. Anyone who brokers power.
by sva_ on 5/22/25, 7:15 PM
It's crazy they're punishing tons of students who don't even have anything to do with these protests
by paxys on 5/22/25, 8:15 PM
by sgnelson on 5/23/25, 12:58 AM
by cozzyd on 5/22/25, 6:24 PM
by kitsune_ on 5/22/25, 6:08 PM
by omnee on 5/22/25, 7:22 PM
by djoldman on 5/22/25, 11:43 PM
https://studyinthestates.dhs.gov/schools/apply/getting-start...
As far as I can tell, the headlines are not quite accurate. From my reading, a more accurate description would be that one cannot obtain a student visa to go to Harvard.
So presumably, if someone could acquire legal residence in another way, they would be free to attend Harvard.
by inverted_flag on 5/22/25, 8:29 PM
by RhysU on 5/22/25, 11:10 PM
by ivape on 5/22/25, 7:09 PM
From a similar CNN article:
"Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem ordered her department to terminate Harvard’s Student and Exchange Visitor Program certification, making good on a promise made last month when she demanded the university hand over detailed records on its international students’ “illegal and violent activities” before April 30 or face the loss of its certification."
Okay, who could they possibly be talking about? Right. The Gaza protesters.
Miriam Adelson - $150m donated to Trump, second highest
Elon Musk is not the only one that bought the White House. So there is a genocide that if any of us tech people had some courage we could easily make some pretty wild visualizations of the before/after of Gaza maps, and the current full scale ethnic cleansing of it, but we can't bring it up. We're failing as tech people on this, but so is the whole world.
by dathinab on 5/22/25, 11:41 PM
the core of free speech isn't if you can insult officers or similar in the larger picture irrelevant things, but the freedom of teaching, education, books etc. And freedom doesn't just means "its theoretical possible" but the absence of suppression, retaliatory actions and similar
by insane_dreamer on 5/22/25, 8:21 PM
> In a news release, the Department of Homeland Security sent a stark message to Harvard’s international students: “This means Harvard can no longer enroll foreign students, and existing foreign students must transfer or lose their legal status.”
So DHS revoked the visas for all existing students at Harvard? That doesn't seem quite possible?
Doesn't give them a timeline either.
The best and the brightest from around the world will prioritize top universities at other countries, and this will damage one of the US' biggest attractions and advantages.
Unbelievable.
by PaulHoule on 5/22/25, 5:55 PM
by bananapub on 5/22/25, 8:30 PM
by markvdb on 5/22/25, 10:04 PM
by jachee on 5/22/25, 10:20 PM
by ChrisArchitect on 5/22/25, 7:36 PM
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2025/5/23/trump-admin-rev...
by gverrilla on 5/23/25, 2:54 AM
by Terr_ on 5/22/25, 6:20 PM
In the last three months, we've collected many data points which are each each further down a slope. I suggest the slope is slippery, and has a very unfortunate end.
__________
[Edit] Predicting a future that might resonate more with YC folks: "Pursuant to Trump Executive Order XYZ, you must submit regular firewall logs and social-media handles for activity by your staff. Failure to comply will result in losing the ability to post H1-B positions."
by oldpersonintx2 on 5/22/25, 6:27 PM
damn, Trump is really gunning for Harvard
not sure what rolling over for Trump looks like, but a lot of existing foreign students will be screwed unless something gives
by philip1209 on 5/22/25, 5:53 PM
by nateburke on 5/22/25, 11:32 PM
by ReptileMan on 5/22/25, 8:58 PM
So he has to deliver at least on two to have meaningful legacy. Because of the idiocy around tariffs - the economy at the midterms will be at best slightly above where he got it. So it leaves immigration and culture war. The border crossings are way down - so halfway there, but deporting meaningful numbers will be hard. Which means that he must deliver on the third issue big. So probably he will continue to bash the soft targets and the institutions that are perceived to be left leaning.
by woggy on 5/22/25, 9:08 PM
by graycat on 5/24/25, 2:54 PM
Sounds catastrophic!
Ah, at no risk are the books and papers, the famous research professors, and their late grad students, and apparently in simple terms (except for just money), that's about all such a university cares about.
So, not much of a catastrophe! Only partially sarcastic!
by tantalor on 5/22/25, 8:16 PM
by NoImmatureAdHom on 5/23/25, 2:23 PM
Shameless, wrong, and overtly illegal discrimination on the basis of race, sex, and creed, suppression of free speech, even the compelling of speech have all been de rigeur for Harvard for the past decade.
I just wish they would use a scalpel rather than a sledge hammer.
The University (and many other universities) has been engaging in overtly illegal discrimination on the basis of sex, race, and creed in hiring, grants, and I'm sure many other areas. There were many job postings where the CVs of white men were never looked at, because of their skin color and sex. There were many grant-funded opportunities (often federally-funded) where a white man, or a man, or a straight person would not have a chance because of those characteristics. Oh, and I should mention "diversity statements", now called "belonging statements". These are political tests: regardless of your skin color and genitals, if you don't sing the right political song you have no chance. This was a first line assessment at many places (e.g., UC Berkeley). This was all overt in that it was openly talked about, people would send emails to the effect "this job opening must go to a brown woman", etc. People generally, somehow, even Americans, didn't understand it was illegal. I would be greeted with quizzical looks if I enlightened them! (in casual conversation, of course, never officially!). This is all for hiring and similar. Students are different, and since the end of affirmative action Harvard has still been doing everything it can to continue discriminating against e.g. East Asians and Whites, which is of course illegal.
You risked losing your job for expressing an uncool belief (e.g., Carole Hooven: https://www.mindingthecampus.org/2024/02/15/carole-hooven-wh...). Of course, they will try to force you to resign before actually firing you, which would leave open the possibility of legal problems. This may be a sort of "why not, it's a small thing, just say it" to a chemist, but to an endocrinologist or social scientist it can be intolerable.
Compelled speech was on the table, too, which is a bright line we have so far, as a society, have managed not to cross. Harvard and other elite universities were crossing it, and the Biden admin's Title IX rules overtly crossed it (by forcing you to use someone's preferred pronouns). A bad look, to put it mildly.
by howard941 on 5/22/25, 9:34 PM
by FilosofumRex on 5/24/25, 4:52 PM
HN is doing a great job disinforming its readers:
“They attacked me when I was down,” Trump told the Chicago Tribune that year. “Now I’m doing great again and it’s my turn. I always said, the first time I got back on my feet, the Pritzkers would be the first people I’d go after.”
https://edition.cnn.com/2025/05/06/us/penny-pritzker-harvard...
"The Pritzkers and Hyatt are no strangers to litigation. In 1978 the Securities and Exchange Commission found that the Pritzkers had used Hyatt to engage in “self-dealing” to the detriment of shareholders."
https://www.chicagotribune.com/1993/07/29/out-to-trump-the-p...
by HEmanZ on 5/22/25, 6:50 PM
Let’s throw that all away because learning is liberal.
by tim333 on 5/23/25, 5:08 PM
>The right-wing conspiracy behind Trump’s war on Harvard
>Back in 2021, far-right blogger Curtis Yarvin, who supports abolishing American democracy and replacing it with a dictatorship...
>...“the real power centers” in the US — the elite media and academic institutions exemplified by “Harvard and the New York Times” — would fight back.
>“That’s right,” Yarvin agreed. “That’s why, basically, you can’t continue to have a Harvard or a New York Times past the start of April.” https://www.vox.com/politics/409600/trump-harvard-rufo-yarvi...
Not sure if that is what's behind it?
by josefritzishere on 5/22/25, 8:26 PM
by scoofy on 5/22/25, 5:56 PM
by beardyw on 5/22/25, 9:18 PM
by jleyank on 5/22/25, 8:28 PM
by apercu on 5/22/25, 8:23 PM
by Braxton1980 on 5/22/25, 8:15 PM
I still haven't found a valid argument for why a voter isn't held responsible for the actions of representatives. Especially if the actions would be likely to occur.
by angrytechie on 5/22/25, 8:36 PM
by gigatexal on 5/22/25, 10:52 PM
MAGA destroying universities smh.
by lenerdenator on 5/22/25, 9:37 PM
And yes, Harvard is absolutely a morally dubious institution. Less morally dubious than Trump's movement is, but still.
by snvzz on 5/23/25, 2:58 AM
Trump is simply saying let's focus on our own people.
by RickJWagner on 5/23/25, 3:36 PM
by harvard1 on 5/23/25, 2:00 PM
by j_timberlake on 5/23/25, 1:45 AM
Which means Harvard leadership actually has more reputation to gain by fighting this than by backing down, very similar to all those tariffed countries.