from Hacker News

Ugly infrastructure: Why can't we have nice things?

by bilsbie on 5/17/25, 12:41 PM with 70 comments

  • by appleorchard46 on 5/19/25, 2:34 PM

    The more time goes on the more I appreciate Lady Bird Johnson's (first lady to Lyndon B Johnson) beautification of America project [0]. It's impressive how precise a response to modern urban hellscape woes it is: more greenery, native gardening, more pedestrian-friendly spaces, public transit, litter reduction, less billboards and advertising. The perspective that aesthetic beauty and things that just make a place nice to live tend to go hand-in-hand is an underrated one.

    > “Though the word beautification makes the concept sound merely cosmetic, it involves much more: clean water, clean air, clean roadsides, safe waste disposal and preservation of valued old landmarks as well as great parks and wilderness areas. To me…beautification means our total concern for the physical and human quality we pass on to our children and the future.”

    [0] https://www.nps.gov/articles/lady-bird-johnson-beautificatio...

  • by Rodmine on 5/19/25, 2:14 PM

    It's like your opinion, man.

    Aesthetic taste varies from culture-to-culture, even individual to individual. Sometimes, minimal and simple is beautiful.

    I really thought that the pictures you were posting later were examples of ugly design (when I was glossing over it) and I found out that you were saying that that one looks good to you.

    The one on top, the example of your ugly design, has natural beauty: a weathered concrete finish. I prefer that WAYYY more than any of the later examples.

  • by airstrike on 5/19/25, 1:47 PM

    On this note, I must recommend Roger Scruton's "Why Beauty Matters" once more:

    https://vimeo.com/549715999

  • by thedanbob on 5/19/25, 2:08 PM

    > Sometimes I play a game while driving, seeing how long I can go without seeing a sign or warning. If you had to hold your breath between each one you'd be in no danger; you could drive hours with no risk of passing out.

    This struck me the last time I traveled in the UK: they seem to have about 3-4 times as many road signs as the US, to the point where it almost becomes a dangerous distraction. On the other hand, they don’t have the omnipresent billboards and other public advertising that the US has.

  • by troupo on 5/19/25, 2:25 PM

    It's not just infrastructure. Most modern buildings are utilitarian and race-to-the-bottom cheap to a fault.

    And while a lot of this can be explained by the requirement to build a lot of things fast, and cheap, even one-off buildings that are supposed to be unique are... just slabs of concrete and/or glass.

    I think nowhere is it more evident than in Europe: https://x.com/dmitriid/status/1912957880195575980

  • by hk1337 on 5/19/25, 2:34 PM

    I thought this was going to be software development focused, so I read it a bit from that perspective.

    > There are any number of ways to build an ugly bridge, but its builders were allowed to make it pretty, and they were right to do that.

    There's obviously extremes to this with developers being perfectionists holding up release (I could probably be on the poster for this) but the pendulum can swing the other way too. Sometimes not taking that extra hour or day to do something can cost you many hours and days later on in the future and to my point, sometimes taking that extra hour or day can save you hours or days in the future.

  • by taeric on 5/19/25, 2:36 PM

    Suspension bridges tend to be much prettier than other styles. I think this every time I get to cross the Tacoma Narrows.

    I'm assuming that is just a preference of mine based on how much rarer they are to see? Could be that they tend to be more expensive and have the maintenance baked into the costs?

    Good examples in the article of how to make others pretty. I'm assuming cost is almost always the limiting factor. Many "ugly" bridges have a hard time keeping up with required maintenance. Keeping any art clean and maintained is almost certainly not in the budget.

  • by affinepplan on 5/19/25, 2:20 PM

    > Why can't we have nice things?

    cars.

  • by cadamsdotcom on 5/19/25, 8:01 PM

    > We won't bean-count our way to a better future.

    I beg to differ. Cheaper stuff is accessible to more people.

    The problem is we haven’t figured out how to agree on how much ornamentation is the right amount.

  • by potato3732842 on 5/19/25, 1:26 PM

    Can you imagine how quickly moisture and winter would destroy the facade on that desert overpass in Minneapolis or how quickly vegetation would climb it in Savannah? When it comes to concrete those "ugly" flat surfaces do a great deal to make concrete weather more gracefully anywhere that gets a winter worth speaking of and prevent vegetation from finding a home in more tropical clients. The painted overpass would not wear as poorly but it still needs to be maintained. A simple pressure washing contract (that we all pay for) turns into something more costly. Multiply by everything you could get in the habit of prettying up with paint and it's a big bill.

    When it comes to indoor capital investments those flat surfaces are easy to clean and they're places that label and storage of ancillary items can be affixed and they reduce wasted space when things are placed adjacent with other things. When it comes to buildings themselves those flat lines lend themselves to ease of laying out the indoor and space. The idea that you have to make things pretty for decision makers reflects how divorced those decision makers are from the daily realities of thing the things they decide (same goes for the peanut gallery).

    I'm so sick of listening to people saying they ought to be prettier when doing so has serious tradeoffs. Are they willing to pay for it? Even a couple percent effort adds up when you make it part of your typical decision making. I would rather have 11 ugly widgets than ten pretty widgets.

  • by notnmeyer on 5/19/25, 2:41 PM

    surely this boils down to cost. if you prioritize low cost you will probably sacrifice aesthetics. maybe it doesn’t have to be that way, but it seems like it often is for better or worse.

    would i rather pay more in taxes for a nicer looking freeway or have it be utilitarian? ehhhhhhh, im unsure.