by SCUSKU on 4/27/25, 8:08 PM with 172 comments
by LandR on 4/28/25, 12:43 PM
As soon as 4 rolls around, I'm done with the money making portion of the day and the rest is just entirely fun stuff. I couldn't care less if what I'm doing isn't ever going to make money, it's just fun / interesting / satisfying curiosity.
I run - but I know I'm never going to make money running. I climb - but I know I'm never going to make money climbing. I code for fun on my side projects - same deal.
That work mindset gets turned off hard at 4pm.
by alkonaut on 4/28/25, 6:48 AM
by IvanK_net on 4/28/25, 5:26 AM
At a certain stage, you realize that in order to be able to do only that job, you must make someone pay you for it. You must do it in a way (or in a volume) which makes others happy. The fact that it makes you happy is not enough anymore.
I don't think there is an angel and a devil. It is still the same thing. If you like the result of your work, there is a high chance that others will like it. You don't need to change what you do by a 100%. Changing it by 5% - 10% is often enough.
by codr7 on 4/27/25, 10:49 PM
My point is that if you start with the fun and let it grow from there, and you're willing to go through the discomfort of sharing, it doesn't have to be either or.
by vicapow on 4/27/25, 10:41 PM
> This application will be able to read and write all public repository data.
by susam on 4/27/25, 11:47 PM
I probably don't need to explain much about coding at work. It's not just about "writing code". It's about software engineering. It's a responsibility that requires professionalism, discipline, and care. The real focus isn't the code itself. The focus is first and foremost on the business problems. Good code, good algorithms, and solid engineering practices are simply means to an end in solving those problems effectively.
But in my free time, coding is something else entirely. It's a form of art and expressing myself. It all started with IBM PC Logo and GW-BASIC, where writing code to draw patterns on the screen was my way of creating art. While some kids painted with brushes and watercolours, I painted with code and CGA colours.
Coding in my leisure time is a way for me to create, explore, and express my silly ideas without the constraints of business requirements or deadlines. It's where I get to experiment, play, and bring ideas, no matter how trivial or pointless, to life purely for the joy of it. Occasionally, these small experiments evolve into something I'm comfortable sharing online. That's when I write up a README.md, add a LICENSE.md, commit the code to my repo, and push it to GitHub or Codeberg to share with others hoping fellow like-minded individuals might find joy or utility in these experiments.
Fortunately, I've been able to release a few projects that have gathered small communities of users. For example, my last such project was https://susam.net/myrgb.html which, as far as I can tell, has got about 50 to 60 daily users. It's a small number but it's not nothing. While coding for leisure has always been enjoyable, the presence of these small communities has also been quite motivating.
I think it is possible to do both with some luck. While coding for work happens almost everyday by necessity, I think coding for leisure can also happen along with it, provided other circumstances of life don't get in the way. If circumstances allow, it is certainly possible. It doesn't have to happen everyday. I know everyone has got responsibilities in their lives. I've got too. But it can happen once in a while, when a spark of inspiration strikes. For me, it usually happens on some weekends when I get an itch to explore an idea, something I feel compelled to implement and see through.
by 0xbadcafebee on 4/28/25, 5:26 PM
You might have been reading all those stories of startups, and now you're stuck in a box shaped like all those stories. That you have to start a startup at all, or that you have to go about it in the way those stories told. You might think that's your only path. But the only limits in this world are the ones we put on ourselves.
Meditate on what you really want, at your core. Start the wheels turning of thinking of ways to get those things that aren't immediately obvious or don't seem likely. Consider a world in which you didn't have fear, doubt, anxiety, or other kinds of limitations. Which path would you choose? What are all the ways you might use to walk that path? You don't need to know the whole path to start walking on it.
by queueueue on 4/28/25, 6:22 AM
by androng on 4/27/25, 11:08 PM
>One of the many things we do at Y Combinator is teach hackers about the inevitability of schleps. No, you can't start a startup by just writing code. I remember going through this realization myself. There was a point in 1995 when I was still trying to convince myself I could start a company by just writing code. But I soon learned from experience that schleps are not merely inevitable, but pretty much what business consists of. A company is defined by the schleps it will undertake.
>The most striking example I know of schlep blindness is Stripe, or rather Stripe's idea. For over a decade, every hacker who'd ever had to process payments online knew how painful the experience was.
by cortesoft on 4/28/25, 12:18 AM
I was so against the idea, actually, that I avoided majoring in CS because I didn't want to ruin my favorite hobby by doing it professionally.
It wasn't until a few years after I graduated with my philosophy degree and couldn't find a career that I decided to try writing code for a living.
It's been great for me for almost 20 years now, and thankfully I still love to code for fun even though I do it all day professionally, but I have not felt the pull to try to form my own startup and try to get rich.
My favorite part of coding is having a problem and then figuring out how to solve it with the tools I have. I love working as a programmer because that is what I do all day, and someone pays me really good money to do it.
And I don't have to worry about all the other stuff like business models or funding or getting customers or talking to people, I just get a problem and do my favorite thing to solve it.
And I have more time to do other things because I am not hustling or trying to get rich.
by skor on 4/28/25, 12:36 PM
Here's one of my latest recordings, if anyone's interested: https://lowveld.bandcamp.com/album/etches.
Musically I think this belongs in the underground - and should stay there.
I'm very interested in the theory behind software & music. Over the years I've mostly focused on the engineering side, but maybe one day I'll document and publish more about it too.
by xfeeefeee on 4/27/25, 10:36 PM
by Thorrez on 4/28/25, 6:45 AM
Why do you need to listen to the devil to stay up to date with the latest technologies? You don't need to work on something monetizable to stay up on the latest technologies. You can work on something for fun and incorporate some of the latest technologies to learn about them at the same time.
by CollinEMac on 4/28/25, 4:00 AM
by mihaaly on 4/28/25, 11:48 AM
My angel wants me to do my side hustles and produce well made products. For the users and myself. But he sits behind me in the corner now with a bitter face. Neglected and left out.
The devil took over making me work for money, sell my hours for the high bidder, for current income. So I could provide for the three most precious ladies in the world: my wife and daughters.
The devil turned out to be not a powerful figure but a ruthless but pity, sweaty salesguy selling crap that I stuck in. Need to carry on with the technology mandated in the position, outdating as we speak, making me increasingly unemployable elsewhere without the 10 years hands on coding experience in 15 kinds of 2 - 7 years old technology, with leadership and mentor abilities of course as an essential trait required. Willing to be enthusiastically agile the hell out of it! For free pizza and fruit bowl!
No good path ahead.
by didip on 4/28/25, 2:43 PM
It used to be such a torture (in my own mind) to constantly trying to come up with a new hustle.
But not anymore. As I got older and after fatherhood, I have learned that balance is everything. Including valueing my time in having fun doing productive things.
If the hacking side project gives me tremendous enjoyment, then it is a win already both from happiness and the “job training” aspect.
As it so happened, I just hang out with my little cousins who are into robotics and so glad that my side projects in the past helped me connect with them, and I was able to give valuable advice. That was a big win for me.
Also, I have learned the value of providing stability for my own family. Something that the childless me never appreciated. Throwing away stability to start a startup has a steep cost these days.
by gmoque on 4/28/25, 4:57 AM
Coding is a tool to solve data problems, I've been doing it for close to two decades now and I still find it fulfilling and fun. Many years ago I used to think, I love my job that I would do my job for free ... I was wrong! Others will paid for doing things you find fun, make sure you know your worth.
by kelnos on 4/28/25, 5:55 PM
I worked for software/hardware companies for 21 years. Some were stable income for me, but nothing amazing. A few were startups where I worked hard but they didn't go anywhere (fortunately I earned a stable, market-rate income before they failed). One turned out to be reasonably life-changing, and I'm very lucky for that. On and off over that period of time I worked on open source projects, some that didn't go anywhere, some that have been successful.
Right now I'm building something to try to sell. I'm not going to take any VC money or pursue high growth. I'm not chasing the latest whiz-bang AI whatever. I'm building a fairly boring product (that is still fun for me to build), using the tech stack that I want, to the standards of quality that I want. Right now I'm working hard on it, but the goal is that, once it's "done" and has customers (fingers crossed I manage to attract paying customers), I'll be spending no more than 10 hours a week on it (and hopefully less on average). If it "only" gets to $500k/yr in revenue or so, after some number of years running it, I'll consider that a fantastic success. If I can run the entire thing on one or two VMs, and it never grows past that infra-wise, that's a fantastic success.
You can listen to both the angel and the devil and still control your own destiny, outside of the scraps your employer will throw at you. Who knows, though, maybe this idea of mine won't work. But I'm happy I'm giving it a try.
by simpaticoder on 4/28/25, 11:43 AM
by pkdpic on 4/27/25, 11:21 PM
by kelsey978126 on 4/28/25, 3:25 PM
by defanor on 4/28/25, 7:08 AM
It appears to imply that new technologies do not count as fun, which may be the case for the author, but not generally. And there are indeed fewer open vacancies requiring older (decades old) technologies exclusively, with vacancies often including currently-hyped technologies in addition to established ones, which opens more options and potentially leads to a higher salary if one employs those newer or hyped ones, but I guess that it is quite possible to pay the bills while using mostly the older ones, too.
by cladopa on 4/28/25, 12:04 AM
Doing necessary work, even when you don't like is for me the definition of "work". You should also learn to manage it, if you work too much, you should take a break.
You don't need to get rich as "billionaire", but if you are good at your work it is reasonable that you will get "millionaire", because you gave society tens of times more value that what you got.
That is not something to be ashamed of. If you got the money gambling(taking it from someone else) you can feel ashamed, but not if you made money generating wealth with effort and work.
by ankurdhama on 4/28/25, 5:31 AM
by kgeist on 4/28/25, 10:36 AM
by joshdavham on 4/27/25, 11:52 PM
At a high level, for those of us who code outside of work, we're constantly faced with the choice of either working on something that we find interesting vs. something that would further our careers. It's awesome when they align, but it can be painful when they don't.
I sometimes feel guilty when I choose to work on passion projects... but if I instead choose work on professional development, I feel like my creative soul starts to wither a bit.
by rorylaitila on 4/28/25, 8:54 AM
by TrackerFF on 4/28/25, 9:10 AM
As for the larger things that could potentially lead to a business, those types of problems usually come from something I encounter at work. If I'm stuck using software that sucks, identify some obvious demand, etc.
by wzhudev on 4/28/25, 6:41 AM
by ringeryless on 4/28/25, 5:44 AM
by milquen on 4/28/25, 9:43 AM
…we may admire what he does, but we despise what he is.
https://readmorestuff.wordpress.com/2009/11/30/extracts-from...
by some1else on 4/28/25, 3:36 PM
by firemelt on 4/28/25, 10:13 AM
by hateful on 4/28/25, 12:37 AM
Not sure you can call it a knockoff if it came out a year earlier!
by gitroom on 4/28/25, 10:55 AM
by gnabgib on 4/27/25, 10:42 PM
by pacifika on 4/28/25, 7:00 AM
by alganet on 4/28/25, 4:23 AM
It's not fun. The activity is not an enjoyable act of entertainment. It's stressful, time consuming and miserable.
The result is what matters. You did something. Learned something. For you, not because it was in some work planning. It provides catharsis.
That sort of catharsis does not exist in some work related environment. It never will, unless stars align magically, which they almost never do.
I am highly skeptic of this "code is fun" perspective. Always was.
That's why "all your base belong to us" kind of contracts in which stuff made outside work COULD become property of the hiring company makes otherwise happy developers into depressive under-productive nightmares. Let them code the toy thing unharmed in their spare time, for fucks sake.
Let it be the real thing. Stop this nonsense fairytale.
It is for your own good. It prevents companies from hiring con men, it prevents young folk from being drawn to a career they will despise, it prevents massive loss of investment.
I wanted to code for catharsis. To learn. To feel I made something. Wanted, past tense. These "code for fun" people were serious contributors to my burnout.