from Hacker News

We can, must, and will simulate nematode brains

by l1n on 4/1/25, 3:16 PM with 116 comments

• by nycticorax on 4/1/25, 5:42 PM

  HN discussion of a related recent story in Wired magazine: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43490290

• by interroboink on 4/1/25, 4:00 PM

  The author makes a good point that it's important to define what "a good simulation" means.

  On one extreme, we cannot even solve the underlying physics equations for single atoms beyond hydrogen, let alone molecules, let alone complex proteins, etc. etc. all the way up to cells and neuron clusters. So that level of "good" seems enormously far off.

  On the other hand, there are lots of useful approximations to be made.

  If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, is it a duck?

  If it squidges like a nematode and squirms like a nematode, is it a [simulation of a] nematode?

  (if it talks like a human and makes up answers like a human, is it a human? ;)

• by jl6 on 4/1/25, 5:21 PM

  cf. the philosophical zombie:

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie

  We really have no idea whether consciousness is something that can arise from computation, or whether it is somehow dependent on the physical substrate of the universe. Maybe we can create a virtual brain that, from the outside, is indistinguishable from a physical brain, and which will argue vociferously that it is a real person, and yet experiences no more conscious qualia than an equation written on a piece of paper.

• by koerding2 on 4/1/25, 6:45 PM

  Maybe the longer writeup we put out with Michael as co-author helps add some useful extra details: https://arxiv.org/abs/2308.06578

• by cabirum on 4/1/25, 5:03 PM

  I'm afraid a neuron may not be a logic gate with synapses serving as inputs/outputs and behaving exactly the same on every activation.

• by nipah on 4/3/25, 7:13 PM

  I love how it is just assumed that "we can" and "we will", a good way to confidently tell you will burn human resources until you get to the point you want.

  Meanwhile, the most advanced simulations are still rough approximations with little to no realism rather than "in this specific conditions and with this specific neural arrangements I made artificially, it behaves similarly to a real nematode", a good way to make a self-fulfilled prophecy.

• by afh1 on 4/1/25, 4:29 PM

  >In 2013, neuroscientist Henry Markram secured about 1 billion euros from the European Union to "simulate the human brain" — a proposal widely deemed unrealistic even at the time. The project faced significant challenges and ultimately did not meet its ambitious yet vague goals

  Ah, so this is where 45% of my salary goes.

• by dj_axl on 4/1/25, 5:10 PM

  Just wire neurons (human or otherwise) to computers, and see what happens.

  https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2025-03-05/cortical-labs...

• by brap on 4/1/25, 3:44 PM

  I sometimes wonder about being able to fully simulate a human brain. Maybe even scan/copy a real person’s brain.

  So many philosophical, ethical and legal questions. And unsettling possibilities.

  We will probably have to deal with this someday.

• by ljouhet on 4/1/25, 6:39 PM

  Isn't it the goal of https://openworm.org/ ?

• by palata on 4/1/25, 4:52 PM

  > This represents the next phase in human evolution, freeing our cognition and memory from the limits of our organic structure. Unfortunately, it’s also a long way off.

  I'm actually happy it's a long way off. Feels like the richer humans would live with cheat codes, and the others wouldn't.

• by Isamu on 4/1/25, 5:03 PM

  It’s all fun and games until the Nematodes achieve singularity and it’s Skynet

• by warpech on 4/1/25, 4:06 PM

  Such a beautiful magazine design. Does anyone have recommendations for more skillfully designed online magazines, blogs, etc?

• by quantum_state on 4/1/25, 3:52 PM

  What does it exactly mean by “simulating” a brain?