from Hacker News

'We stand with Ukraine for as long as it may take' – Keir Starmer tells Zelensky

by sirolimus on 3/1/25, 6:20 PM with 102 comments

• by duxup on 3/1/25, 6:24 PM

  At this point wouldn’t mind seeing Europe stand up and take the symbolic role of “leader of the free world” since my country’s administration seems to have quit on it.

• by siliconc0w on 3/1/25, 6:55 PM

  If they wanted to, they could stop sheltering and seize Russian oil wealth hiding in the UK or stop the 'shadow fleet' used to export oil by sanctioning the importers. Probably won't though.

• by lazyeye on 3/1/25, 6:46 PM

  So we'll give Ukraine just enough support to keep the meat-grinder going but not enough to win the war. If Ukraine looks like winning at any point, Putin may escalate to tactical nuclear and we can't risk that.

  So after a couple more years of the meat-grinder, Ukraine no longer has enough young men to maintain a viable force.

  What happens then?

• by hnthrowaway0315 on 3/1/25, 6:36 PM

  Is it the famous "We will give them every support, short of help" line? /s

  quote: from "Yes Prime Minister"

• by mjburgess on 3/1/25, 6:58 PM

  Since at least Obama, the US has been trying to exit Europe and form a dentent with Russia so they can "pivot to Asia". Europe trying to undermine the US exit from ukraine will be just the excuse trump is looking for to withdraw (the 100,000+ troops, and massive military spending on NATO in the EU, etc.). This means no government in Europe will actually do anything about Ukraine -- the risk to the collapse of NATO is too great.

  Ukraine has always been a bit of political theatre for the west, and all Trump is doing is forcing the show to end -- which is one of the real shocks to the system. What is most bitterly disliked by both the public and elite in europe is that they might actually have to do something on behalf of ukraine that risks their own security and, of course, they never will and never would. Europe humiliated as a paper tiger will give Trump no great headlines in european newspapers: this is the real psychological shock.

  Trump actually means to end the war, and if that fails, withdraw US support. What a predicament for everyone who wants the war to continue -- they'd actually have to risk something. And hence, this will all be over very quickly.

  It's well known the russian elite contain a large pro-western contingent, though the public in russia is not and much more pro-war than the elite. Putin is looking at a way of returning the economic situation to a pre-war state without angering the public -- without it "all being for nothing" and so on. So the deal Trump will offer will be accepted there, and if it isnt accepted in the EU he'll withdraw US support.

  There has not been, to my knowledge, a single proposal by the pro-war axis to achieve any other outcome. And of course not, the pro-war sentiment in the west, is a paper-tiger charade to boost their own credibility and punish russia for informing them that the 2000s are over and the USA is not the lone superpower in the system. That Russia (, and china of course) intend to act like the US in their own spheres of influence, and use their militaries to achive political ends. This was only supposed to be a US privilige.

  The world is now a game between US, Russia and China -- and the leaders of these nations are looking to rapidly normalize and stablizle relations -- because they are each their significant threats -- everything else is a distraction. Especially the EU, which will do nothing to change that -- indeed: why bother? Sit back and get rich whilst the bullies waste their money in fights.

• by thunkshift1 on 3/2/25, 1:16 AM

  Whay does “stand” mean here? Just make statements in public? uk isn’t doing much tbh

• by theideaofcoffee on 3/1/25, 6:56 PM

  PRESIDENT (over radio)

  As the situation develops, one thing must be understood above all others... People of Gotham, we have not abandoned you.

  BLAKE

  What does that mean?

  GORDON

  It means we're on our own.

• by brink on 3/1/25, 6:48 PM

  Trump made the right move. I've had enough of the wars and proxy wars. Peace is on the table, they should have taken it. So glad I don't live in the UK right now.

• by legitster on 3/1/25, 7:06 PM

  I don't know where so many people justify that Europe militarizing is a good outcome. Best case, it's a massive drain on the global economy. Worst case, we are stuffing the powderkeg for WWIII. There's a reason the US was happy to pay more than it's fair share for NATO for so long.

  If we start to see tariffs take off internationally, like we did back with the Smoot Hawley tariffs 100 years ago, we are literally recreating the environment that created WWII, this time with Ukraine playing the part of Manchuria.

• by mikewarot on 3/1/25, 6:57 PM

  I'm quite sure sufficient resources exist in Ukraine to rapidly build Thermonuclear weapons to stave off Russia. It wouldn't surprise me if someone else supplied a few covertly to hold off the Tyrant.