by yakkomajuri on 2/28/25, 6:49 PM with 5044 comments
by basisword on 2/28/25, 9:26 PM
by lifeisstillgood on 2/28/25, 8:19 PM
Just doing this in front of the world’s media … it’s hard to understand
by Animats on 2/28/25, 9:25 PM
Here's a rundown:
- Rare earths:
I've mentioned the MP Minerals, Mountain Pass, CA mine before. The US doesn't have enough rare earth refining capability, and China won't export the technology. So US ore goes to China for processing. Or did, until DoD paid for a separation plant at Mountain Pass. That problem is close to being solved. That new separation plant is running. A plant for the final step, making magnet-ready metal, has been built in Texas, again by MP Minerals, and it's about ready to open.
What's happened with rare earths is not that they're rare. It's that China undercut US prices so much that the Mountain Pass mine went bankrupt. Twice. In 2015, there was a rare earths glut. Look at WSJ rare earths articles back to 2011.
There are large un-mined rare earth deposits in Colorado and Wyoming, with startups talking about mining them. Whether this makes economic sense is unclear. If all those start up, the price will crash again and they all go bust.
Three years ago, the US rare earths situation looked bad. Not today.
- Uranium
The US has plenty of uranium resources. Canada and the US are historically the biggest producers.
- Titanium
Titanium ore has supposedly been discovered in Tennessee. See https://iperionx.com/ Are those guys for real? Not clear.
- Lithium
The US produces about 75% of the lithium it uses. New deposits have been found in Arkansas:
https://www.usgs.gov/news/national-news-release/unlocking-ar...
And in Nevada:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCWeZiVsotc
- Graphite
China is the leading producer, but Canada and Norway are ramping up. There hasn't been US production of natural graphite since the 1950s. US production of synthetic graphite satisfies most US demand. (https://pubs.usgs.gov/publication/pp1802J) Several new synthetic graphite plants are being built in the US.
As we've seen in rare earths, when the cheaper sources raise their prices, domestic production increases. It seems to take about three to five years to get a big mining operation going.
Quietly, during the previous administration, there was funding for US mineral projects in rare earths, graphite, and lithium. It's no secret, but most coverage is from sites that cover mining and minerals.
by GMoromisato on 2/28/25, 8:56 PM
1. Support Ukraine enough so that Russia doesn't take too much more territory, but not enough for Russia to feel threatened and escalate the war. This was the Biden plan and it sounds like what Europe wants. I just don't see how this ends the war. Is this just buying time for someone to depose Putin?
2. Support Ukraine enough so it can take all its territory (maybe minus Crimea). This may not be possible with weapons alone. This might require a NATO no-fly zone over Ukraine, which effectively makes us a combatant. I actually would support this path, but the downsides are all too obvious.
3. Freeze the conflict at the current lines and guarantee the agreement with US/NATO forces. What does that mean in practice? If Russia violates the agreement we go to option #2? That sounds like a hollow threat because we're clearly not ready to do #2 right now, when it could actually help. All this will do is let Russia rearm.
4. Abandon Ukraine and make a deal with Russia against China. [This is Trump's plan and it's as stupid as it sounds.]
Did I miss anything?
The root of the problem is that this is a hard-power conflict and the only solution is going to be hard-power. But neither the US nor the EU are willing to put in hard-power against Russia. In that situation, I honestly don't know how to stop Putin from getting what he wants.
My frustration is that, as awful as Trump's plan is, it acknowledges that the only way to beat Russia is to send US troops to fight Russians, and there is no universe in which the US public will support that.
But please, correct me if I'm wrong. I would like to be wrong.
by duxup on 2/28/25, 8:03 PM
Most of the nations were woefully slow to act with Ukraine (hey let's send some token helmets). They've got a totalitarian regime invading democracies in their back yard but don't seem all that united about it ....
by jmward01 on 2/28/25, 10:02 PM
by iamEAP on 3/1/25, 9:34 AM
I don’t know what comes next. No one does. But Europe needs a deep-rethink of a lot more than just defense if it wants to have any say in what the next world order is going to look like. Otherwise, we’re looking at four decades of less peace and less prosperity.
by insane_dreamer on 2/28/25, 6:57 PM
But boy, will the nations of the world remember this -- how quickly the US can turn from ally to bully. A really bad day for US foreign policy.
The EU is going to be thinking long and hard about the future of NATO now.
by sleepyguy on 2/28/25, 6:53 PM
by nrawe on 2/28/25, 9:03 PM
However, I think their calculation here speaks to the difficulty of the current situation.
Putting aside the morality, sovereign integrity, and such: the situation appears to be entering/in a stalemate. The Ukrainian forces have done well to proactively take and hold Russian territory, and have held the line pretty well. However, there does not seem to be a play here that will conclusively end Russian occupation presently. The best case seems to be waiting out the supply of Russian troops, but the Ukrainian army doesn't have an endless supply of volunteers in this regard (I've worked with a few who have).
So the question has to be asked: how does this end decisively if neither side can win outright? And how much support is required to maintain the status quo?
I hate to say it, but I think they will likely have to lose territory. I think they could argue for greater security architecture (i.e. part of NATO but no nukes) to prevent repeat. But otherwise I can appreciate why the current administration is where its at.
Its a sorry situation all around.
by yubblegum on 3/1/25, 2:30 AM
One thing that is certain that such reckless behavior by the US executive will increase geopolitical instability. Nuclear proliferation is very much in the cards. And you can be certain the event was viewed with horror in Asian capitals where the notion of 'face' is a matter of cultural sensitivity. I wouldn't be surprised if Japan decides to go nuclear post-haste.
by Nition on 2/28/25, 8:53 PM
by jaaron on 3/1/25, 1:51 AM
"So we have won. That is decisive. The world will be never ever like before. Globalists have lost their final combat. The future is finally open. I am really happy."
https://x.com/AGDugin/status/1854136340184490282
Dugin wasn’t exaggerating when he said, “We have won.”
Today’s White House display is exactly what he meant. A decade ago, the GOP would’ve never echoed Russian talking points. Now, they’re openly aligning with them.
This isn’t just isolationism—it’s the dismantling of U.S. hegemony from within.
by mamonster on 2/28/25, 6:51 PM
by captainkrtek on 2/28/25, 9:23 PM
It is sobering to see women and children shelled in their homes and hospitals. 20 Days in Mariupol is free to watch on Youtube (Won the Academy Award for Best Documentary last year): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvAyykRvPBo
by biomcgary on 2/28/25, 9:29 PM
Our detached and distant situation invites and enables us to pursue a different course. If we remain one people under an efficient government, the period is not far off when we may defy material injury from external annoyance; when we may take such an attitude as will cause the neutrality we may at any time resolve upon to be scrupulously respected; when belligerent nations, under the impossibility of making acquisitions upon us, will not lightly hazard the giving us provocation; when we may choose peace or war, as our interest, guided by justice, shall counsel.
Why forego the advantages of so peculiar a situation? Why quit our own to stand upon foreign ground? Why, by interweaving our destiny with that of any part of Europe, entangle our peace and prosperity in the toils of European ambition, rivalship, interest, humor or caprice?
by entropyneur on 2/28/25, 11:26 PM
Watching this situation unfold is very disturbing. And especially disheartening is the behavior of Republican representatives. A mere month ago these same people were Ukraine's best friends and world's dictators' most hawkish enemies and suddenly they are all parroting a completely opposite narrative. I mean, I can understand electing a pathalogical liar. Happened in my country as well. But turns out others were lying too? Suddenly turns out there's no commitment to values, but only a commitment to one man? If this can happen so easily in a 250 years old democracy, is democracy even worth fighting for? Is the Ukrainians' sacrifice worth it?
by consumer451 on 2/28/25, 9:53 PM
https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1ixbbr9/countries_t...
by mhh__ on 2/28/25, 8:28 PM
by appel on 2/28/25, 9:55 PM
My heart breaks for Ukraine. The outcome of the November 5, 2024, election will prove to be a tragic mistake.
by StarterPro on 3/1/25, 8:03 AM
Why else would you have the cameras in there for that long, and act that way in front of said cameras. I'd hate to be Rubio or anyone else trying to actually do their job.
It stopped being a Red/Blue issue after the polls closed, this is a issue for the country as a whole.
by threecheese on 2/28/25, 7:12 PM
by akmarinov on 2/28/25, 9:16 PM
Any negotiations US-Russia will be useless as the US won’t represent anyone with a stake in the war. They don’t have people, territory, anything at stake, they don’t get refugees and generally aren’t directly affected in any way.
What are the chances that they just leave Ukraine, Europe and Russia alone from now on and leave them to sort it out on their own?
by attentive on 2/28/25, 10:16 PM
All the while "3,200% CPU Utilization" with 100 comments is #1. Which is niche at best.
by seydor on 2/28/25, 8:06 PM
OTOH, a minerals deal with the US ensures that the US will have a stake in defending the postwar ukraine.
Lots of drama and optics involved for sure, but it seems the outcome or the talks was predetermined
JdVance will not last for long - is there procedure to replace him?
by rkagerer on 2/28/25, 8:33 PM
by Humorist2290 on 2/28/25, 9:04 PM
You can contact your senator and ask how they are contributing to the safety and prosperity of Americans, or just human beings in general.
by j_timberlake on 3/1/25, 4:27 AM
Rising wages, lower taxes, or 35 hour work weeks, instead of stagnation and inflation. So they wouldn't turn to a populist outsider.
by miramba on 2/28/25, 8:48 PM
by gwerbret on 2/28/25, 11:09 PM
by TheAlchemist on 2/28/25, 9:15 PM
Reuters and Associated Press were barred from Oval Office during this meeting, but a Russian state news agency TASS reporter was allowed - into the Oval Office.
Wake up America before it's too late.
by pgib on 2/28/25, 9:56 PM
by lijf on 2/28/25, 7:34 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/8793e218-9dc4-43a8-8183-e2a092bbb...
by _DeadFred_ on 2/28/25, 7:51 PM
by Paradigma11 on 3/1/25, 9:34 AM
by parski on 2/28/25, 9:50 PM
by leshokunin on 2/28/25, 9:31 PM
by rllearneratwork on 2/28/25, 9:31 PM
If you are thinking about working in AI for x.ai or Tesla - do not. This will not look pretty on your resume.
by yakkomajuri on 2/28/25, 9:00 PM
To me it feels like a setup to look good in front of their audience without any proper desire to engage in true diplomacy.
by sergers on 3/1/25, 3:13 AM
How everyone in the world wanted usa to stay out of other countries 20 years ago...
https://youtu.be/LasrD6SZkZk?si=qbP5t6WNVY7hq0p9
Seams alot of people want to bring that back.
by fosh on 2/28/25, 8:43 PM
by namuol on 2/28/25, 8:48 PM
by ericzawo on 2/28/25, 9:29 PM
by lawgimenez on 3/1/25, 2:09 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_Defense_Treaty_(United_...
by CSMastermind on 3/1/25, 1:47 AM
https://x.com/shaunmmaguire/status/1895606614302019688
(The full video is in the post)
by neilv on 2/28/25, 9:25 PM
But HN is still feeling the previous few days of HN outrages (which involve tech).
Are we going to have outrage fatigue, and let even more injustices slide? How do we manage that, and what is HN's place?
by leftcenterright on 3/1/25, 7:46 AM
https://www.npr.org/2025/02/24/g-s1-50473/un-ukraine-resolut...
by jimnotgym on 2/28/25, 9:53 PM
We don't have to suck up to the US any more
by evo_9 on 3/1/25, 4:42 AM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7pxbGjvcdyY&pp=ygUbZnVsbCB6ZWx...
by kelseydh on 2/28/25, 8:55 PM
by tanbog45 on 3/1/25, 12:35 AM
China and Russia and many others will be very pleased.
I expect a number of military "provocatives" from China in particular in the coming months.
by HellDunkel on 2/28/25, 8:31 PM
by sys_64738 on 2/28/25, 9:13 PM
by rzwitserloot on 3/1/25, 12:54 AM
A comedian is clearly the best job on your resume if you want to apply for the job of president.
Certainly the experience dealing with hecklers, and a sharp wit, come in handy.
by poszlem on 2/28/25, 8:20 PM
by louthy on 2/28/25, 9:42 PM
Why? Because the dominant empire that enforces it gets the most spoils from that peace. It is why Britain had the biggest empire ever and it's why the US is the richest nation on earth today.
This point seems to be completely missed by Trump, Maga, the US talking heads, and even people in threads like this. If the US withdraws from being "the world's policeman" then it withdraws from its empire.
As a European watching this unfold from the outside, it's hard not to see the actions of the US government as the beginning of the end of US dominance. It will likely hasten the collapse of the US dollar (if you can't force everyone to buy oil in dollars, then the world will shift, likely to Euros), does the US think their currency will remain the ‘reserve currency of choice’ if they isolate themselves from the world? The era of firing up those greenback printing presses whenever you want will be gone.
Isolationism will just lead to Europe recreating (or re-purposing) the institutions that the US was critical in forming (The UN, The World Bank, etc.) and looking to be its own world peacekeeper. It will eventually move the dominance to whichever nation or nations fill the vacuum. The US will get poorer. It may not collapse, but you can't withdraw from being the dominant empire and there be no financial consequences. Just look at the collapse of the British empire.
The problem is that this won't happen overnight. And the process of the US withdrawing will certainly lead to wars, maybe even a third world war. The withdrawal of its soft power via USAID will likely lead to famines, health crises, migrations, and a lot more refugees.
You may think that we can just 'sit it out' and wait for Trump's term to complete. But, it's obvious that the Republican party is now the MAGA party. The former allies of the US need to realise that this is it. They need to fill the space as fast as possible and move forward without the US. The US is not an ally any more.
It really is the last thing we needed after a financial crisis, a pandemic, and with the existential crisis - climate change - being ever more kicked into the long grass.
I despair for where this is heading :(
by walterbell on 3/1/25, 6:00 AM
by duxup on 2/28/25, 7:54 PM
by legitster on 2/28/25, 7:24 PM
Zelensky was brought here specifically to be publicly humiliated on live TV.
In 80 years, if we still have history books, this moment will be in them.
by solid_fuel on 2/28/25, 10:07 PM
I am calling my representatives and DEMANDING action, and if you care about this nation, the security of Europe, or defending a democracy against invasion then I recommend doing the same.
It has reached the point where I cannot express my full thoughts on this matter without reckless language. But rest assured, if we (Americans) do not speak out and stop this NOW, it will get worse.
by topherpalmtree on 2/28/25, 9:22 PM
by svara on 3/1/25, 10:43 AM
This looks like a major strategic blunder.
by czhu12 on 3/1/25, 8:46 AM
1. The nuclear deterrence of mutually assured destruction that’s been in place for half a century is no longer “assured” if the U.S. isn’t seen to be reliable. I have to imagine the second priority after upholding Ukraine is a European arms race, so that at least the sum of European warheads and delivery capabilities matches Russian ones.
2. There’s a fringe pro unification group in Taiwan that advocates for reunification with China on friendly rather than hostile terms. It will be seen if that group raises in prominence after these spectacles.
by crossroadsguy on 3/1/25, 11:45 AM
> In 1994, Ukraine agreed to transfer these weapons to Russia for dismantlement and became a party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, in exchange for economic compensation and security assurances from Russia, the United States, United Kingdom and France to respect the Ukrainian independence and sovereignty in the existing borders. Years later, Russia, one of the parties to the agreement, invaded Ukraine.
I live in the upper part of India and I suspect I could have been taking forced Chinese lessons right now if a woman, decades ago, who was called a bitch by a US secretary of state, didn't decide to say 'fuck it!' and went ahead with her plans to have our own modest nukes.
Would this world have been better off if no one had nukes? Of course, yes. I do believe so.
Would we (the world; not just India) have been better off with just USA, Russia, France, UK, China having nukes? Fuck no!!!
And I have a foreboding feeling the list is not going to stop with Pakistan, NK, and that undeclared member of this club. Also, I just hope South Africa has no reasons in the future to regret.
And then: I mean - does anyone else not find the very fucking idea of NPT ridiculous? You can't have nukes, we have and we will keep having it? Why? Just because. Come, sign this now. Assurances? Yeah, maybe. What the actual fuck!
by eunos on 2/28/25, 9:24 PM
It's all pure raw quid pro quo from now on.
by MichaelMoser123 on 3/1/25, 3:25 AM
by abrolhos on 3/1/25, 10:40 AM
by insane_dreamer on 2/28/25, 10:56 PM
by xg15 on 2/28/25, 9:39 PM
It would make some kind of sense and match the rhetoric of a lot of republicans - but on the other hand, it also sounds awfully risky especially if the plan is more or less known to anyone?
by sidcool on 3/1/25, 3:27 AM
Imagine your country being usurped because people in some another country voted for someone who may have ties with your enemy.
by mempko on 2/28/25, 8:34 PM
by morphle on 3/1/25, 5:20 AM
This Dutch NOS news version [1] is longer than the BBC version and it is enlightening.
Il'll try to search for a version that has the total recording (this version misses the opening remarks) from start to finish and still without any editing (this version has no editing cuts). If I find a longer one I'll comment below.
The comments of Trump and Vance where way out of line if you consider they where in response to Zelensky stating in the very beginning that you should understand that Putin allready invaded in 2014 and has never honored any agreements or ceasefires before (especially not between 2014 and 2022 in Ukraine but also with other countries).
by etwigg on 2/28/25, 8:40 PM
by hayst4ck on 2/28/25, 10:34 PM
The political spectrum is divided chiefly by how one views what peace is. On one side, John Locke's and the American founding father's, peace is the presence of justice. On the other side Thomas Hobbes' and Russia's, peace is the absence of violence. When you feel wronged, do you submit, or do you fight? If you fight you fight for justice. If you submit, it's because the violence is too much or those with the capacity for it are too strong, you would rather live a slave than die on your feet.
Ukrainians are fighting for justice, for self determination, and for a better tomorrow. Ukrainians are better Americans than we are because they have chosen to risk their lives rather than submit.
Peace must be due to justice, not submission. "Peace" due to submission is a false peace. It is the very definition of oppression.
by tnt128 on 2/28/25, 10:59 PM
by markus_zhang on 2/28/25, 9:20 PM
by yes_really on 2/28/25, 9:49 PM
I understand that argument, but what about security guarantees? Zelensky has been simply asking for security guarantees so that Putin doesn't start another war in a few years (like he did in 2014 and 2022). Why can't Trump provide that? Why should we just trust Putin's word? Or is there something I'm missing?
by AlexatParis on 2/28/25, 9:05 PM
by preisschild on 2/28/25, 6:58 PM
by metadat on 2/28/25, 10:10 PM
by SergeAx on 2/28/25, 10:06 PM
Instead of directly responding to direct questions, Vice President Vance starts shaming and bullying President Zelensky. This means the US has no answer and doesn't want to admit it. This is why Ukraine should walk away from the deal that gives them nothing.
by vitali on 2/28/25, 11:19 PM
If you’re an American, good luck. I’m sorry you’re gonna have to go through this.
At the end of the day, if you voted one way, it wasn’t your fault. You were probably deceived by foreign psyops. Happens to everyone.
If you voted the other way, don’t be angry. Turning it into class warfare does not provide any moral victory, and more so, is once again a distraction from the group of people who really are to blame for this. This is a the rallying point you were waiting for to become more politically active, in whatever way you can.
Also maybe consult with your constitution?
by TheAlchemist on 2/28/25, 8:08 PM
He went to the White House knowing that they will try to do exactly that and yet he did it with his head held high and did not sign the deal. Amazing guy.
This is also a historic day for the world. US dominance over the West is over.
As a European, I will vote against any politician that keeps talking about EU-US special partnership and doesn't put 'EU First'. The special partnership is over, we are still doing business together but it's clear as a day that it's only business from now on.
by layer8 on 3/1/25, 12:55 AM
“We had a very meaningful meeting in the White House today. Much was learned that could never be understood without conversation under such fire and pressure. It’s amazing what comes out through emotion, and I have determined that President Zelenskyy is not ready for Peace if America is involved, because he feels our involvement gives him a big advantage in negotiations. I don’t want advantage, I want PEACE. He disrespected the United States of America in its cherished Oval Office. He can come back when he is ready for Peace.”
It seems to me he wants the war over with as quickly as possible, and America’s involvement minimized, which means the weaker party in the conflict has to concede. And in his view the weaker party has no other chance anyway. He also wants to minimize anything that would stand in the way of lucrative deals with Russia.
by StefanBatory on 2/28/25, 9:20 PM
That one day they will sever ties with Europe, I expected. But not becoming an actively hostile state.
I am left wondering - how long it will take until Americans start openly supporting Russia and China?
When I was younger, anti-American people were a source of jokes for me. Being a Pole, why would anyone be against our ally? Well, now I see. And it's painful to say that, but I'm starting to see Americans as people in very negative light. Perhaps you were hated in the rest of the world for a reason.
by tsoukase on 3/1/25, 3:00 AM
Are these world class leaders that manage trillions and more importantly human lives?
Where is the f... nuclear weapons threat that would convert the war to a cold one?
Why doesn't EU cooperate/negotiate directly with both Ukraine and Russia to end the war? US can be ignored for now with such incompetent leadership.
Just a reminder: Uk and Ru are sister countries. Kiev was the first capital of the Russian empire. Its loosely like a civil war.
by goshx on 2/28/25, 8:05 PM
Is it only about chips and AI for economic reasons or is there more involved like, an army of robots or something to control everything?
by tomjakubowski on 3/1/25, 2:18 AM
by sympil on 2/28/25, 7:46 PM
by freen on 2/28/25, 8:05 PM
https://thespectator.com/topic/spectator-interview-president...
by dethos on 3/1/25, 11:49 AM
by questinthrow on 3/1/25, 12:48 PM
by josefritzishere on 2/28/25, 9:38 PM
by kemiller on 2/28/25, 11:23 PM
by VeejayRampay on 2/28/25, 9:07 PM
if you're american and you're able to watch the video without feeling either ashamed or revolted, know that absolutely no one in the world respects the cloth you're cut from, except for the the worst dictators and their lackeys
by FrustratedMonky on 3/1/25, 6:37 PM
I think we are up to Season 3, Ep 9.
The president will declare martial law, and will issue executive order to dissolve the senate.
by lionradio on 3/1/25, 9:38 AM
by omayomay on 2/28/25, 9:02 PM
by nickmp on 2/28/25, 10:10 PM
by legitster on 2/28/25, 7:12 PM
by codedokode on 3/1/25, 9:31 AM
by MilnerRoute on 2/28/25, 7:19 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jqLtIrRqDg
https://apnews.com/live/donald-trump-latest-news-2-28-2025
Is it just me, or does it seem like the conversation swerves suddenly to "you're disrespecting..." It just seemed like a complete change of subject.
by gambiting on 2/28/25, 8:54 PM
by FrustratedMonky on 2/28/25, 8:30 PM
Timely. Netflix has series "Turning Point: the Bomb and the Cold War" that is a good watch while the world burns.
by adamnemecek on 2/28/25, 8:25 PM
by lifestyleguru on 2/28/25, 9:04 PM
by gattr on 2/28/25, 9:17 PM
But FOR GOODNESS' SAKE, these dealings and bickering are supposed to happen behind closed doors! You give the public just the bland courtesies and assurances! The US president and vice president have come across as impulsive 4-year-olds throwing toys out of a sandbox.
I used to think that the novel "The 2020 Commission Report on the North Korean Nuclear Attacks Against the United States" ([1]), which ridicules Donald Trump quite a bit, was overdoing it for humor. Now I'm not so sure.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_2020_Commission_Report_on_...
by racktash on 2/28/25, 8:24 PM
It's no coincidence he dropped a "World War 3" reference, a common talking point of a certain segment of the online populist right (to be clear, this isn't to say some fear about such a scenario is unjustified; only to point out that it is cynically used to steer the discussion about the Ukrainian in a certain direction).
Shame on everyone who continues to be an apologist for this administration. People can make mistakes – I've supported my fair share of dodgy people in the past – but anyone who doesn't see things clearly at this point isn't looking.
by develop7 on 3/3/25, 9:44 AM
by lwansbrough on 2/28/25, 8:49 PM
It genuinely feels like I'm looking at the precursor to a Nazi party.
by yes_really on 3/1/25, 12:10 AM
- It was amicable for the first 30 minutes.
- It went downhill when Zelenskyy asked Vance slightly hostile questions saying that Putin would not honor the cease-fire.
- Then Vance responded in a more hostile manner saying Zelenskyy should be more thankful and that he shouldn't be litigating in front of the press. And everyone started fighting.
Honestly, the 3 of them acted badly. Both Zelenskyy and Vance started it. And after it was started, Trump just accepted the fight instead of trying to end it. It's sad this ended this way, especially because the press conference was going well for the first 30 minutes.
by Alifatisk on 2/28/25, 7:01 PM
by Invictus0 on 2/28/25, 9:42 PM
by JanSt on 2/28/25, 8:51 PM
by thefz on 2/28/25, 9:39 PM
by reverendsteveii on 2/28/25, 9:36 PM
by pcj-github on 2/28/25, 8:38 PM
In my view the only way to solve this is through a complete and utter rejection of all things USA. People of Europe and the world, you can help by immediately stop buying American products, halt any travel plans you might have had here, have your goverments embargo us. Do everything in your power to crush our economy.
We need something extreme to make these MAGA folk and the Republicans in power break out of this authoritarian fever dream they are in.
I'd rather see this country get sick and vomit what needs to be expelled rather than have it die a slow death from this cancerous group-think that has overtaken half our population.
by kreeben on 3/1/25, 12:21 AM
America, don't be the next force the rest of the world needs to fight. Wake the fuck up.
by duxup on 2/28/25, 7:17 PM
Jebus, how do you screw up a photo op?
Buch of children in the US executive branch.
I suppose they think they look “strong” but it looks more insecure and incompetent to me.
by thewileyone on 3/1/25, 9:39 AM
That's the impression and its really shameful and embarrassing.
by whalesalad on 2/28/25, 9:12 PM
by geye1234 on 3/1/25, 2:26 AM
I'm working on the thesis that everything politicians say about foreign policy in public is for the consumption of the home audience, which has served me pretty reliably up until now.
by shmerl on 2/28/25, 10:22 PM
They should use all frozen Russia's money assets to back Ukraine's war effort (it still didn't happen fully). And increase weapons production and armies to adequate sizes ASAP (this should have happened "yesterday").
by dekoruotas on 2/28/25, 8:20 PM
by aaroninsf on 2/28/25, 8:05 PM
by fullshark on 2/28/25, 8:47 PM
by archagon on 2/28/25, 6:53 PM
by hnbad on 3/1/25, 11:08 AM
Things only really get "angry" when JD Vance tries to provoke him only for him to calmy respond and be cut off immediately by Trump as soon as he hints at the US not being immune to physical risks from adversaries just because there's a body of water around it. Trump then goes completely off the rails saying things like "you don't get to dictate to us how we feel" or some nonsense like that.
It seems that the line he crossed was suggesting that the US is a part of geopolitics, not just an immortal observer with the option to intervene and participate as they see fit with no risk of consequences. This wasn't a disagreement over Russia, this was a disagreement over American isolationism and the mirage of American invulnerability that I thought had been disproven at least since 9/11.
by picafrost on 2/28/25, 8:24 PM
I suspect that this exchange will become an infamous moment in history. Utterly shameful.
by ulrischa on 3/1/25, 4:17 PM
by namuol on 2/28/25, 10:33 PM
by throwaway48476 on 3/2/25, 12:21 AM
by hypothesis on 3/2/25, 3:17 AM
by analognoise on 2/28/25, 8:34 PM
Where is Congress? This needs to stop; impeach Trump already!
by overview on 3/1/25, 3:07 AM
I like to think more about the individuals than anything else. If it really is possible to no longer have them die over things they realistically won’t get back, and it’s possible to freeze the progress of Russia with where it is today, isn’t making the war stop the top priority?
by worik on 2/28/25, 10:33 PM
Mr Trump is not wrong IMO that Europe has depended too much on the USA for too long.
Europe is divided, both between and within nations, this might be the impetus needed to reverse that. Unite them in their diversity, and take their place in the world
by whatshisface on 3/1/25, 8:02 AM
by TomK32 on 2/28/25, 10:55 PM
by spinlock_ on 3/1/25, 10:15 AM
by aucisson_masque on 2/28/25, 11:49 PM
Pushing back on Putin has never been one of trump goal, he'd rather have the entire Europe Russian than having to deal with that.
Instead he is much more focused on fighting China, which is fair.
However, Russia has been a long time China allies. They have mutual border, mutual goals (the first one being to end American domination on the world).
Wouldn't helping Putin, by making Ukraine armless and easy target, be then also helping china indirectly ?
I don't see how, all things considered, it even helps push trump agenda on fighting china.
by belter on 3/1/25, 12:43 AM
by aussieguy1234 on 3/1/25, 3:17 AM
Putin would like to restore the former Soviet union, he said that the collapse of the Soviet union was a catastrophe. The war in Ukraine is the beginning of Putin trying to rectify this. So if he wins the war in Ukraine, about half of Europe will likely be next. He will likely want to move fast, not waiting 4 years for Trump to be possibly voted out and possible US opposition after that.
by snickerbockers on 3/1/25, 6:24 AM
The only three possible outcomes at this point are total Russian victory, peace treaty, and WW3. It's not realistic to think Ukraine will ever bring Russia to its knees on its own.
by skc on 3/1/25, 12:50 PM
It seems to me that Trump and Putin are effectively allies at this point so what exactly would trigger World War 3 in his mind.
by dade_ on 3/1/25, 12:28 PM
by m3kw9 on 2/28/25, 11:11 PM
by janalsncm on 3/1/25, 1:35 AM
But I also believe Ukraine is increasingly a distraction from more pressing concerns, both domestically and abroad. Frankly, there will probably come a day when the current world manufacturing superpower (China) decides to throw their weight around. And that day may be very soon.
As Americans I think there is a huge amount of hubris preventing us from seeing how vulnerable we really are. Outspending adversaries on military should be seen as weakness, not a strength, especially when we consider 1) the fact that American manufacturing is more expensive 2) a lot of spending is maintaining legacy systems 3) an adversary will likely not try to compete in conventional means 4) China graduated more STEM majors than all US majors combined which drives down costs 5) China has recently become the number 1 car exporter 6) US payments on debt now exceed defense spending for the first time in ~90 years despite not even being at war 7) almost all chips are currently made in Taiwan.
(If anyone doubts this, they should watch videos of Chinese drone shows, and imagine it being scaled up 100x.)
And just to double down on the hubris bit. Every single time I see some discussion of research that came out of China I see the same old tropes: they can’t innovate, it’s stolen IP, it’s low quality. Things that are either false or irrelevant. It didn’t matter that the Soviets stole blueprints to nuclear weapons.
by Bondi_Blue on 2/28/25, 7:22 PM
To state the obvious, the Trump administration is more interested in profiting from a minerals deal than supplying any actual security guarantees. The Russian Federation has proved time and time again that they will breach any peace agreements (as occurred with the current invasion which breached agreements bartered after the annexation of Crimea) made with Ukraine for piecewise annexation of their neighbors, at any price to their own soldiers and people.
True lasting peace, is avoiding further steps to another world war. It takes hardly a high school education in history to recognize those preliminary warning signs in Russia's behavior. A common talking point that the Trump administration seems to use, is that they are doing precisely that- preventing a world war- by refusing to further arm and protect Ukraine with weapons and security guarantees- however this refusal does just the opposite, and this minerals deal really has nothing to do with Ukraine's security or interests. The devil is in the details, and the Trump admin refuses to detail how the minerals deal would protect Ukraine or how they would respond to further territorial incursions if the deal were to be signed.
Aside from all this, of course there's a lot of topical nonsense in how Trump and Vance conducted themselves, with shouting and lecturing at Zelensky, but these are all distractions, and they have almost no substance or details to back their broad claims about how or why this conflict started and what would end it. Scapegoating and bullshitting seems to be their game, but luckily Zelensky both asserted himself where possible and kept a relatively calm, but brutally honest, demeanor.
Because the security threats to America would come a bit later, likely in the form of Russia marching into a NATO country, Americans will believe what they want about the conflict. Trump makes this especially easy with his false and misleading oversimplifications. It is sad to think that a proportionally small sacrifice by the American taxpayer to help a country like Ukraine has been sized up as unworthy collateral for saving lives and fighting fascism.
by baxuz on 3/1/25, 5:59 PM
This is the culmination of 10 years of hybrid warfare via disinformation and propaganda.
by ckbishop on 2/28/25, 8:17 PM
by dworkr on 2/28/25, 9:18 PM
by mikewarot on 3/1/25, 6:42 AM
We're going to see our standard of living drop by 80% or more because of this. 8(
by markhahn on 2/28/25, 10:01 PM
Not only does Ukraine deserve respect and support, but the US's elected crazies are damaging the country. Soft power is real, and smart, power
by TriangleEdge on 2/28/25, 10:53 PM
Why is Russia at war with Ukraine?
ChatGPT tells me it's because of "western alignment". Trump told reporters 1m people died. Seems a bit excessive to me for political ideas.. I'd have an easier time believing it's a resource conflict or some oil field being liberated or wtv.
by froggertoaster on 3/1/25, 4:42 AM
Read the comments on this thread.
Then read this post by Dan, where he explains why the post isn't ranked higher: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43212835
TLDR: lots of flags on this thread, despite the overwhelming number of comments that tend in one direction.
Think about that.
by fjjjrjj on 2/28/25, 10:26 PM
I hope we still have a country 4 years from now. He is a saboteur as is Musk and both should be considered foreign agents IMO. Yet they are running the country. Makes me want to vomit.
by Vaslo on 3/1/25, 6:03 AM
by labrador on 2/28/25, 8:24 PM
by excalibur on 2/28/25, 8:42 PM
by sleepyguy on 2/28/25, 7:55 PM
by thrance on 2/28/25, 8:27 PM
by somethoughts on 3/1/25, 7:03 AM
Lines on Maps - Oval Office Meltdown: The Trump-Zelensky Split, Europe's Response, and the Fate of the Ukraine War
by yobid20 on 2/28/25, 9:29 PM
by lun4r on 2/28/25, 7:40 PM
Your country is spiraling into disgrace, yet you sit there, watching, complaining online, doing nothing. Where is your outrage? Where are the millions in the streets forcing change? By staying silent, you are complicit. Just like the Russians who let Putin tighten his grip for decades, you are letting a clown dismantle your democracy in real time.
History won’t just judge you—it will condemn you. Stand up, or accept your place among the cowards who let their nations rot.
by hermitcrab on 2/28/25, 10:23 PM
by dismalaf on 3/1/25, 1:11 AM
Now China looks reasonable, as the main superpower that isn't perpetrating or supporting an active all-out war... They might even get Taiwan and others on their side without firing a shot.
This will unite Europe, all Macron and Merz have to do is limit migration and stay reasonably centrist and they'll both limit Russian influence and be the new leaders of the free world, along with Poland, Italy, the Nordics, etc...
It's also a strange situation for Americans I'm sure. On one hand, I can understand why Americans voted for Trump. The left ignored the working classes, pushed way too hard on extreme left social issues and didn't have coherent domestic policies. On the other hand, I really doubt anyone, even most conservatives, want to be part of a Russia-NK Axis and be enemies of the entire free world. How is the CIA and others going along with this?
We live in interesting times...
by Ancalagon on 2/28/25, 8:30 PM
by jbirer on 3/2/25, 8:43 AM
by lovegrenoble on 2/28/25, 8:35 PM
by unethical_ban on 2/28/25, 11:56 PM
Vance is like Ben Shapiro with a little bit more intelligence.
Zelensky had some translation issues, perhaps, and said something in a strange way. But Trump's outburst was like that of a run-of-the-mill dive bar moron, not a diplomat.
Zelensky's interview with Bret Baier was also subtly hostile. Z never said the words "apologize" or "sorry" but did express regret that the conversations happened as they did in public. He was repeatedly grateful of the support of the US and was showing quite a lot of understanding.
The arguments of the Fox panel, if you cut through the lines, is that it is Zelensky's fault for not knowing how to handle the intellectual child that is the US president.
by tehjoker on 2/28/25, 8:14 PM
All the liberal cold warriors that wanted to bleed russia made Russia stronger by doing this. Not that I care either way, but it's funny to watch these war hawks have it blow up in their face, not that they really care since they are eating charcuterie at DC lawn parties with their Raytheon bucks.
by yalok on 3/1/25, 12:51 AM
vs
guys who are just afraid of the compromat that Putin has on them.
by midoreigh on 3/1/25, 6:29 PM
by croes on 2/28/25, 9:37 PM
by pencilcode on 2/28/25, 10:54 PM
by rsyring on 2/28/25, 9:00 PM
We are currently watching the downfall of the current world order and the US as a bastion of democracy. And I'm not exaggerating. Trump is aligning himself with Russian interests. He even had a Russian state media representative at that meeting. Rome had to fall, I'm sorry I'm living to see it.
Trump, you'll never read this, but I need to say it anyway...there aren't words to describe how despicable you are. Tyrant wannabee and greedy coward. You are selling the American soul to cozy up to a murder and rapist. Those who voted for you have no excuse. You were always clear about the kind of man you are.
by jbverschoor on 2/28/25, 8:25 PM
by icedchai on 3/1/25, 12:58 AM
by matthest on 2/28/25, 8:27 PM
Right now, it's basically the US vs Russia and China.
But what Trump is betting on is that it could be the US + EU + Russia vs China.
In order for this to happen though, the EU must build their own military.
The EU could and should be a superpower, but they're not. Instead they're living off the US military.
The US has been gently trying to get EU to boost its own spending. This goes as far back as Obama, and maybe even further back.
The difference is that Obama was somewhat passive aggressive with his approach. Whereas Trump is tearing off the band aid.
The public belligerence and positioning against the EU is an effort to kick them out of the parents' basement and get their act together.
Now, what is he doing regarding Canada and Mexico? That I have 0 clue. And his current stance honestly seems stupid.
by dave333 on 2/28/25, 9:32 PM
by drgo on 2/28/25, 8:52 PM
by bvan on 2/28/25, 9:31 PM
by hmm9900 on 3/1/25, 1:13 PM
by he0001 on 3/1/25, 3:44 PM
by DrNosferatu on 2/28/25, 9:19 PM
by damion6 on 2/28/25, 9:13 PM
by black_puppydog on 2/28/25, 9:07 PM
by kombine on 2/28/25, 10:00 PM
by iugtmkbdfil834 on 2/28/25, 9:28 PM
1. None of it should be a surprise. Policy-wise, Trump's position was very much well known at this point. 2. For Zelensky, this is actually the least bad political option at this point, which is presumably why is doing it this way 3. Note the amount of astroturfing surrounding anything related to Ukraine. It used to be that you couldn't comment on anything about Ukraine without being given 'you talk like Ukraine has no autonomy' speech. Yes. On HN too. 4. To all the hyperbolic, hyperventilating accounts out there, please stop. You are not helping your cause. If anything, you are making it worse.
by uptownfunk on 3/1/25, 2:20 AM
by sirolimus on 2/28/25, 9:15 PM
by twixfel on 2/28/25, 7:45 PM
by iashishagarwal on 3/1/25, 3:25 PM
Let’s look at the other side for a minute,
1/ Zelensky rejects the idea of stepping down after White House spat - Is Zelensky the right leader from here on ?
2/ Zelensky needs a bench to deal with different personalities, he showed up in his usual style hoping for compassion. Trump was clearly unkind but he should have chosen his words carefully , practiced what works for this president
3/ What is the end game for Ukraine? No one is winning this war in fact Russia has support of both China and India. They can’t expect US to go into direct conflict with Russia
by effed3 on 2/28/25, 10:06 PM
by beej71 on 3/1/25, 4:25 PM
by at0mic22 on 2/28/25, 9:14 PM
by jmull on 2/28/25, 8:45 PM
Obviously those idiots in the White House are provoking this juvenile confrontation as part of a move toward withdrawing US support from Ukraine.
But why? It's beyond clear that a resurgent Russia is against our interests, but here we have the President debasing himself and his country to suck up with Putin as if Putin was the leader of a superpower.
So it must be a pretty bad reason. I guess we'll eventually find out why, but it may not matter at that point.
How stupid and idiotic.
by jorblumesea on 2/28/25, 8:17 PM
Zelensky was invited to get fox news soundbites of Trump and Vance beating up on him. That's it. a sad state of affairs and a scathing indictment about how uneducated the maga base is around world affairs.
by voisin on 3/1/25, 2:43 AM
by munksbeer on 2/28/25, 7:55 PM
by goatlover on 2/28/25, 7:34 PM
by sirolimus on 2/28/25, 9:53 PM
by inverted_flag on 2/28/25, 7:09 PM
by linuxhansl on 3/1/25, 2:18 AM
by asnyder on 2/28/25, 10:04 PM
It seems Zelensky was unaware he's dealing with Trump, his demeanor, and his presidency. Historical this or that is not applicable when dealing with someone like him. Trump will be Trump, and nobody should expect otherwise. Always best to understand and know your counterpart.
I'm definitely no Trump supporter, but objectively, prior to the blow-up, Trump was being somewhat reasonable. Maybe the most Presidential I've seen him. He reaffirmed support for NATO, continuing sending weapons to Ukraine, and generally wanting to push efforts to stop fighting, etc. He respectfully let Zelensky speak numerous times, at length, on difficult subjects, even things he didn't agree with. He even respectfully looked at photos of prisoners offered by Zelensky. Compare that to his prior behavior with the UK Prime Minister just a day before where he cut him off numerous times forcefully.
Zelensky made numerous mistakes, emotionally reacting and replying to reporters questions when not directed towards him, adding on more grievance, and generally not being as a politician needs to be. He clearly showed why being emotionally responsive doesn't work in a debate, court, or other significant and crucial meetings.
The supposed Mineral agreement may just be a way for Trump to look like he got concessions or something in exchange to look strong to his supporters, especially compared to his favorite archrival Biden.
If Zelensky had goals/aims he wished to reach, he should've done his best to ensure the truth and his viewpoint comes through when is applicable to the question being asked, but not offered voluntarily or in conflict with his ally's statement. His demeanor from the beginning of the broadcast was already chilly and stern. He should've let any need for venting to come out AFTER the signing, at the 2nd joint press conference scheduled for later in the day.
If you watch Vance's initial statement, it was relatively supportive of Ukraine and leaned to neutral at the end. Nothing negative outright that needed to be added on to. Zelensky erred here by asking if he could ask Vance a question afterwards which led to the blow-up and escalation, and ultimately really bad decision of telling Trump he's going to feel this or that. This was a classic mistake. Question was over, should've moved on. Logically no possible statement could've helped his efforts or goals, so he only had the potential to hurt himself. Further being emotional, combative, and from Trump's perspective, relatively disrespectful did not help him. The entire over answering, and combative escalation was an emotional release from Zelensky and did not aid his aims, and ultimately hurt him.
He left in the worst possible position. He didn't get to his signing, nor his second opportunity for public statements post-signing, where he would've had clear gains, while forcefully stating whatever truths he feel were being left out or gaslit.
It seems Zelensky felt he needed to vent and express his people's pain, frustration, and anguish, but as the saying goes, time and place for everything, and unfortunately wasn't correct for either.
by roboben on 2/28/25, 9:43 PM
by rmk on 3/1/25, 4:33 AM
No one did a thing when Crimea was taken. In fact, there was simply no firm response after Russia shot down the airplane brazenly. In fact, leaders such as Merkel further increased dependence on Russia by importing gas and integrating them deeply into Germany and many other EU countries' economies! Staggering incompetence and frank delusion!
by bg24 on 2/28/25, 9:28 PM
Humans (our leaders) have behavior that shows up when under stress or things do not go per their plan. Other countries are already noticing this about USA leaders and will not hesitate to exploit.
My prediction for the future, with a heavy heart.
- Feb/2026: China becomes #1 in technological progress. And America's relationship with former allies is irreversibly bad.
- 2027-29: Russia continues to pamper President Trump for another term. Their goal is to create anarchy in America. They succeed.
by mpreda on 3/1/25, 6:40 AM
by dwoldrich on 3/1/25, 1:23 AM
That explosive clip, which I'm sure is all 99% of people have watched, happens like 40 minutes into an otherwise really quite friendly presser.
https://www.c-span.org/program/white-house-event/president-t...
Very disappointed with practically all of you.
by gtsop on 2/28/25, 9:11 PM
The inability to see how this policy benefits usa (by giving an end to a dead-end spend to a lost war, claim some losses, attempt to not go head to head with russia since china is the biggest fish to deal with right now) is trully laughable.
I know the downvotes are going to come raining, i don't care.
by _DeadFred_ on 3/1/25, 12:31 AM
by trackone on 2/28/25, 9:39 PM
by horns4lyfe on 3/1/25, 3:53 AM
by wg0 on 2/28/25, 8:20 PM
by hashstring on 2/28/25, 11:52 PM
You really believe that the current administration is acting out of “hopes to end the killing”?
What do you think Greenland is about? About spreading christianity?
The current administration is failing and the top % is profiting off it; eating itself up. It’s a pattern that’s well known.
Internationally, the US is rapidly losing allies all across the board. And internally, facing its facing increasingly extreme inequality in terms of wealth distribution.
The current administration doesn’t even have interesting cards that it can play.
by xyst on 2/28/25, 9:39 PM
by timetraveller26 on 3/1/25, 2:21 AM
Question after question praising Trump and then he repeating his same old script. They even seemed to forget Zelenskyy was there for a moment, and then a reporter asks him why is he not wearing a suit?. Such a ridiculous question, and if they care about it so much, why they don't ask Elon Musk that?
Being in Z shoes I would feel like a sane people trapped on an mental institution or a cult.
by a13n on 2/28/25, 7:11 PM
The world is changing pretty quickly, and stuff like this does have implications on war, business, technology that's I think is worth discussing here.
by insane_dreamer on 2/28/25, 7:19 PM
by whatever1 on 2/28/25, 11:29 PM
After WW2 the EU was formed with the goal of stopping the bloodshed. Germans and French became friends!
Europe outsourced their defense to the USA, and instead they started paying NATO and buying defense equipment from US companies.
Yet they stood by the USA in all their fair or unfair endeavors in the Middle East.
The first time that the EU called for actual help, the US seems aligned with Russia.
Things don’t look good.
by hayst4ck on 2/28/25, 8:23 PM
Whether the senior powers in America are compromised, complicit, or opportunist, it doesn't matter. America is being damaged. Russian interests are being prioritized over American interests.
Our military is too powerful for direct conflict, so alternative conflict against our political structure and economy is more logical. America is experiencing a decapitation strike, and our military is not defending us from these domestic enemies. https://archive.is/1xkxK (Decapitation Strike -- Timothy Snyder)
by angrytechie on 2/28/25, 8:33 PM
by zfg on 2/28/25, 9:31 PM
Then they hoped America would beat itself.
But I bet they never expected America to turn into an ally.
by rad_gruchalski on 2/28/25, 8:31 PM
They have already started dismantling the government. Next they’ll shake up the military. Every totalitarian regime shakes up the military.
by toomuchtodo on 2/28/25, 6:50 PM
by pillefitz on 2/28/25, 8:45 PM
by varispeed on 2/28/25, 9:04 PM
I know Trump has not been an example of tact but this is something else.
by mnewme on 3/1/25, 12:51 AM
by mopsi on 2/28/25, 7:47 PM
by mjfl on 3/1/25, 12:32 AM
1. Do you see a path to victory? If so, how many Ukranians have will have to die before Crimea is retaken? Conditioned on your answer - do you really care about Ukrainians?
2. Do you really believe that the West stands for the 'rules based international order' while it unconditionally supports the ethnostate of Israel holocausting it's indigenous population inside of a concentration camp?
3. Do you really consider Ukraine to be a democracy given that Zelensky has suspended elections and has repressed his political opposition?
by nikolayasdf123 on 3/1/25, 10:46 AM
by scop on 2/28/25, 8:45 PM
- We want peace. Full stop. No more dead men, women, and children. THAT IS THE GOAL.
CONTEXT:
- Trump armed Ukraine to the teeth in first term, providing lethal aid which previous presidents did not do. He wanted to deter Putin while not also escalating.
- Adding Ukraine to NATO is a line in the sand for Putin. How would we feel the US feel if China and Mexico entered a defense agreement and placed Chinese missiles on the US border? Adding Ukraine to Nato is an ESCALATION.
- Biden admin sent Kamala over to Europe in '21 saying it was time to add Ukraine to NATO. Good job guys.
- Biden then said his response to a potential Putin invasion would "depend on whether it was a major or minor invasion" (I'm generalizing).
- Biden then flopped Afghanistan. US weak.
- There were rumblings of a peace deal in early 2022, but Boris Johnson and European delegation shot it down.
Europe and Ukraine are relying on the US to bankroll/supply a war with one of the world's greatest nuclear threat. THIS ISN'T A FUCKING VIDEO GAME. The lines have been more or less drawn. If we continue this war, we either:
(a) at a minimum, drive Russia into closer alliance with China while killing many more Russians and Ukrainians
(b) provoke a hot war amongst many nations, leading to the death of millions
OR
We get a peace deal done with the general boundaries that have been consistent for nearly two years: Russia provinces going to Russia, a DMZ established, and Ukraine sadly smaller.
This isn't simply "we must support the Good Guys and defeat the Bad Guys". Right now Trump wants PEACE and feels as if Zelensky demands to call the shots. He can't call the shots. He is not the US.
Addendum:
Re mineral rights and the accusation "Trump just wants the $$$", you do realize that placing a large US business interest in Ukraine (as opposed to backdoor dealings) is actually a way of strengthening the US's commitment and investment in Ukraine, right?
by nahuel0x on 2/28/25, 8:57 PM
- Be aggressive against China allies to weaken them before attacking China (Biden)
- Try to be friendlier to China allies so they become US allies or at least neutral (Trump)
We are seeing oscillations between those two strategies, because both US factions are playing his cards according to what both see at the end of the tunnel: A new World War with US and China as the main actors, the most probable outcome of imperialism and capitalism crisis. The Trade war is his first act.
by temporallobe on 2/28/25, 8:28 PM
To quote Dean Acheson from Thirteen Days, “Hopefully cooler heads will prevail before we reach the next step.”
by cynicalpeace on 2/28/25, 9:21 PM
Just the facts:
1. Zelensky did indeed say thank you, at the beginning of the conference.
2. Zelensky made faces at various points of the initial questions. Mostly in frustration with reporters but also in frustration with Trump
3. Zelensky shook his head when Trump started making some remark he disagreed with. A reporter even followed up on him shaking his head. This was the preamble to the bigger argument.
4. Finally, Zelensky asked Vance a provocative question "what kind of diplomacy are you talking about?" which started the shouting match.
Zelensky and this administration simply do not want the same thing. This kind of altercation was probably inevitable in some fashion, but it should've been done in private. Zelensky now gives no chance for the administration to even save face if they do decide to help more.
by nikolayasdf123 on 3/1/25, 10:45 AM
by phendrenad2 on 2/28/25, 9:01 PM
by arjunaaqa on 2/28/25, 9:23 PM
He has lots of history proving he is no innocent man.
He comes from theatre background, so he loves doing theatrics.
He is cause of this public infighting.
Look at full interview please.
- He is president of one of most corrupt countries, don’t think him as a saint.
- Look at reactions of his own ambassador, you will understand why she is disgusted.
- Trump is a straightforward man. Zelensky very well knew terms of deal before he flew to Washington.
But he came because this drama is what he wanted, for his selfish and sponsored agenda.
This will not end well for him.
Ukrainians need a different leadership.
by headsman771 on 2/28/25, 8:12 PM
He's trying to pressure Trump and America in general into giving Ukraine NATO membership or security guarantees against Russia.
Sorry, but Ukraine, which is not in NATO and thus not entitled to unconditional defense, is not worth starting WW3 over.
Its sickening watching Zelensky and Europe act like my country is obligated to go into unlimited debt or die on the battlefield to protect them.
by superq on 2/28/25, 8:52 PM
I haven't seen a single thoughtful critique of Zelenskyy or his behavior on HN; it seems very one-sided and strange.
(also interesting that the BBC mispelled his last name, even though they're obviously big fans..)
by tlogan on 2/28/25, 8:33 PM
by gravy on 3/1/25, 2:47 AM
by surume on 3/1/25, 7:52 AM
by goatlover on 2/28/25, 7:39 PM
by nxm on 2/28/25, 9:14 PM
by JumpinJack_Cash on 2/28/25, 7:52 PM
Zelensky is facing opposition, every day ever since 2022, Trump faced his best friend Schumer and a whole bunch of people he laughs with when the cameras are off (or even when they are on considering how he laughed amicably with Obama at Carter's funeral.)
Romney would have never done this, the end of religion and the rise of social media could very well be the thing that ends us for good.
by alberth on 2/28/25, 9:19 PM
Seems like POTUS feels used / manipulated, but how & why?
Zelensky seems to disagree with some apparent proposed plan, but what is the plan & why does he disagree?
by beebaween on 2/28/25, 8:40 PM
by KevinMS on 2/28/25, 10:03 PM
by brickfaced on 2/28/25, 9:19 PM
by sys32768 on 2/28/25, 10:05 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1hrs6oz/clos...
by lijok on 2/28/25, 9:51 PM
Once you understand the history behind NATO's expansionism, the unfortunate role Ukraine serves as a buffer zone, and the failures of US foreign policy under Obama, you will see how the crisis in Ukraine started. Then, once you factor in Zelenskyy's "non-negotiables", you will see how this exchange, while unprofessional, is not surprising in the slightest.
by sgalbincea on 2/28/25, 8:37 PM
by epolanski on 2/28/25, 9:37 PM
It is though to come to such meetings when the other party (the Trump administration) genuinely does neither care nor likes you.
That being said, I'm gonna point out Zelenski himself.
1) You can't be sitting in the oval office and tell the president of one of the most belligerent and bloodiest countries in the world "you cannot understand how it is to defend yourself, you're surrounded by oceans on both sides". If there is one thing that you should never, ever do, is question America's willingness to pick a fight. That was what triggered hugely Trump (go check the video). That was a terrible mistake, directed to the bulliest president of the bulliest country in the planet, a gigantic blunder on its part.
2) I feel for Zelenski, but after what happened today, his political career is over, that's what pundits and political analysts all over eastern Europe are saying (they are much more critical of Zelenski's naivety than Trump's behavior). Former prime minister of Poland Leszek Miller has been very critical and said Zelenski came very unprepared and leaves in a worse position.
He quits the White House in a critical situation and if Ukraine wants to get some kind of leverage it will have to necessarily consider a change of leadership. Zelenski's stance has been terrific in the first years of war, but now he's alone and unable to get most of what he can for Ukraine.
by jumpman_miya on 3/1/25, 1:47 PM
by ToDougie on 2/28/25, 9:00 PM
Somehow all of the whiny commenters on here forget that DJT's first administration provided considerable CIA/Tier1 training and resources to the Ukrainian military. Then Russia invaded while Biden was president. They didn't invade on Trump's watch. They invaded while Biden was running(?) our country. Now, yet again, Trump has to go clean up the mess -- just like he did after Obama gave Putin the flexibility to invade Ukraine after his win in the 2012 election.
by fmxsh on 3/1/25, 7:41 AM
> Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, [...], unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon.
What is the interesting new phenomenon this is supposed to be evidence of? (The question is not intended to be a statement.)
by gregwebs on 2/28/25, 8:42 PM
Obviously Trump & JD did not handle that well and embarrassed anyone that believes in the value of international diplomacy.
For some more backstory on Zelensky's disposition you can listen to Lex Friedman's take. He went to Ukraine to interview him with the only goal of making peace more likely and couldn't get Zelensky to move an inch in that direction during their discussion. He believes that Zelensky is an amazing leader in many respects, but poorly equipped (mentally) to make peace. [2]
[1] https://youtu.be/uqOOOR7Kr-s?si=5lbj-fGWTZzYMVwB [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4T2EL8hkwGE
by meitham on 3/1/25, 7:15 AM
by hyuh56 on 3/1/25, 7:34 AM
If nations beleive this is a just war then they should send troops to the ground. Otherwise it seems like Ukraine citizens are sent to their graves while west is again virtue signalling.
by MaxGripe on 2/28/25, 10:12 PM
by apotropaic on 3/1/25, 7:25 AM
by tonymet on 2/28/25, 8:15 PM
Trump was elected on negotiating a peace, and that's going to piss off Zelensky. Zelensky became entitled to a blank check with no strings attached. Now the terms have changed.
There are some people who expect dialog to proceed like an HR meeting, and those that find relief in direct and sometimes heated language.
To me the meeting felt like a tremendous relief. A resolution will develop, finally.
by dznodes on 3/1/25, 12:53 AM
by jameslk on 2/28/25, 8:23 PM
Hacker News has fallen victim to the reality tv star’s antics
by avodonosov on 3/1/25, 1:48 AM
Most commenters have highly inadequate view of the Ukrainian situation. I wonder why. Even in highly censored and manipulated universe of western information space, there are enough facts to form more adequate views. What makes people ignore the facts and stick to the wrong views?
I suspect it's because of a feeling instilled, that sticking to these opinions makes them good people. If you #StandWithUkraine you become a kind of a moral hero.
Paradoxically, this confirms the need for brainwashing in mass politics. If normal, sufficiently intelligent and developed audience can not form adequate views of political questions, somebody needs to guide their views.
Unless some new technology or social organization emerges, that allows public to form a balanced and adequate opinion, some guides will need to brainwash the public.
But when the guides are themselves inadequate, troubles happen.
by danbruc on 2/28/25, 9:00 PM
by deadbabe on 2/28/25, 8:51 PM
And what I see is Europe doesn’t seem to care much if Ukraine falls. The United States, has been supporting Ukraine far more up to this point, and they are not the ones facing the prospect of having Russia in their backyard breathing down their back. So if Europe doesn’t give a fuck, maybe it really means the fall of Ukraine ultimately doesn’t mean much to anyone except the Ukrainian people. The world will move on. This helps keep me calm and prevents me from stressing over most world affairs.
And another thing I wonder is what exactly is so bad about Russia anyways? Their leader sucks, but so does ours, and don’t people of both nations just want a good life at the end of the day? How different are they really from us? When I see TikTok interviews of everyday Russians in the streets, they are just like us, similar beliefs about their own country and what is wrong with the world. I understand less and less the source of our conflict.