from Hacker News

The ideal candidate will be punched in the stomach

by smitelli on 2/18/25, 1:22 PM with 252 comments

  • by rachofsunshine on 2/18/25, 10:34 PM

    This is one of the best things I've read in a long time. It's not exactly saying anything new - I'm sure this sentiment will be recognizable to almost everyone - but it's saying it quite eloquently.

    I'm a big believer in the power of the zeitgeist, and this quiet desperation is all over the air of the year 2025. It doesn't really have a name yet. It's not just ennui, because ennui is just boredom. The feeling of 2025 is boredom and fear and despair, all mixed together. But it doesn't seem to be entirely new:

    “...and in the eyes of the people there is the failure; and in the eyes of the hungry there is a growing wrath. In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage.”

    ― John Steinbeck, The Grapes of Wrath

  • by hiatus on 2/18/25, 5:14 PM

    This captures a form of existential dread I am sure all of us have felt. On the one hand, you have an ostensibly "good" job with great pay, benefits, etc. On the other hand, you have to _get punched in the stomach_ each day. All while knowing that there are people out there taking more abuse for likely far less pay. Who are you to feel bad about your situation?

  • by supriyo-biswas on 2/18/25, 6:49 PM

    Perhaps the biggest takeaway or "moral" of the story would be this:

    > And let’s not even get started on you. You, who breezily engaged with any recruiter who blew smoke up your ass. You, applying and interviewing for jobs you didn’t want, then saying yes to their offers just because the compensation was higher and it felt like maybe the grass would be greener too. You, who time and time again sat around waiting for the world to tell you what you were supposed to do at every given moment, spelled out in big bright letters. Someday you will have to learn that opportunities never find you like that; historically, only punches do.

  • by npodbielski on 2/18/25, 9:07 PM

    Wow, this hits surprisingly close to home. I do not feel existential fear about everything, do not take any antidepressants or anything like that... I just very rarely feel happy, or passionate about anything, at all anymore. My job just burned it all out. I felt depressed for few months, though I am not really 'depressed-stay-in-a-bed' type of person. I do live normally, I am just feeling sad and indifferent about anything. I told my manager that I am almost done with my mortgage and he asked in return if I am planning to quit my job... And the worst thing is that job is not bad, I would say it is quite good. Good pay, paid time off, remote... It is just so freaking pointless and stupid. I would prefer doing anything other than working there really, today I did groceries and it felt more rewarding. Oh well, maybe I should stay in my previous project like the moral of the story tries to incline instead going for bigger pay.

  • by mortenjorck on 2/18/25, 5:59 PM

    The casual, patent absurdity juxtaposed with the ennui of modern life at a corporate job is, in a genuine literary sense, Kafkaeque. Bravo.

    That said, this also feels like something of a relic from the zero-interest-rate era when jobs like this were plentiful, before layoff fever swept the American boardroom.

  • by tombert on 2/18/25, 9:29 PM

    This was a fun read, and I've worked enough jobs to where this just felt like someone was stalking me.

    Every job I've had has always felt like they're taking more than my time and energy: they take my "life force", as it were.

    A job can really drain you, especially since as the article says, a lot of jobs are just busywork. A corporation is a machine whose goal is to spend money, and sometimes make money back too.

    The massive layoffs in 2022 and 2023 in the tech world sort of exemplify this. The big tech companies had money, so they have to spend it, and the easiest way to spend money is to hire people. Whether or not they're "necessary" isn't the point, the point is that you need to do something with the money.

    When the money dried up, suddenly they have tens of thousands of people whose jobs really were not necessary and so they have to fire a bunch of them. It's terrible, but it's basically the backbone of our economy, so I don't even know that it can be fixed.

  • by alabastervlog on 2/18/25, 5:10 PM

    I'm only about 20% in but if anybody ever asks me "what is your day-to-day internal experience of ordinary life like?" I'm just going to point them to this.

    [EDIT] Still not done but this is just getting more true the farther I go.

  • by computronus on 2/18/25, 5:58 PM

    Reminds me of a job posting sent by a recruiter that expected candidates to seek "professional and personal hypergrowth", "keep up with an unrelenting pace", and "thrive on change". Dealing with these facets of work in moderation is all well and good. However, these and other points led me to guess that they had set up a high-pressure, possibly chaotic environment, perhaps on purpose.

    I opted not to pursue the opportunity.

  • by petsormeat on 2/18/25, 6:47 PM

    This was a compelling story for me to read, after leaving a tech job so abusive that I didn’t work full-time for five years. When you envy the cashier at the minimart for their ostensibly more straightforward work day, it’s time to resign. I appreciate that the author found humor in so many inexplicable details of typical corporate office life.

  • by gretch on 2/18/25, 10:10 PM

    I had some years in my life where I could definitely relate to this, but I'm completely recovered.

    I think the key is to have some part of your life that is meaningful and fulfilling and not dependent on your work situation - aka hobbies.

    To relate it back to the story, there's a part where the protagonist thinks about what they've been doing with their time ("What have you been doing with the remaining 36 hours of the past workweek?") - when you're at this step, you should pick something up.

    Painting, learning spanish, volunteering at the animal shelter, amateur hockey league, picking up trash at the park, writing a book, etc

    If you can manage this, you'll find a new appreciation for your job. This thing that is minimal tax on your life that allows you the opportunity to hobby in the 99th percentile.

  • by anotherhue on 2/18/25, 5:19 PM

    Oh good, it's not just me.

    A friend of mine developed stomach ulcers, so this isn't even that fantastical.

  • by JohnMakin on 2/19/25, 3:57 PM

    Wow, this is a long read but hits extremely close to home. I think anyone who has experienced this kind of burnout can relate - I can relate to so much of it, more than I'd like to write publicly.

    I'm lucky to have a job where although my main value is tolerating a lot of disrespect and pointless abuse, I value my colleagues a lot and enjoy working with them, and my job/product/company is doing something meaningful, which offsets it quite a lot. I've also been in roles where that hasn't been true and the oppressiveness after a while is hard to put into words - particularly people like the unsympathetic bad-advice relative that thinks anyone that makes what you make shouldn't be miserable at all.

    The first time I noticed I was burning out like this, at an old miserable job, was there was a part of my commute I'd been taking for 10+ years where a few weeks in February, the morning sunrise will shine in a particular way at an intersection I noticed. Then, one year, I noticed this again and in my head I was like "oh, it's February again" and kind of uneasily noted that it had only felt like a few months, not an entire year - and then the next year it happened, was even more unsettling - huge chunks of time I couldn't really piece together clearly in between the two years. The year after I got a little bit better of a job and had recovered from burnout, the "February sunlight" phenomenon stopped. It now feels like a full year in between noticing this, if I notice at all, and I'm grateful for that very small and weird win.

  • by happyopossum on 2/18/25, 10:56 PM

    So, am I the only one here who was thinking "I'd take that job"? I mean I have a good job, and apparently am one of only 3 people on HN that doesn't feel abused by their FAANGNOAwhatever employer, but for 3x the pay and 1 minute of 'work' a day? Yeah, I'd take that job and do it for the next 20 years...

  • by tristor on 2/18/25, 8:28 PM

    This might be one of the most beautiful, terrifying, and accurate takes on modern corporate life that I've read. I typically don't read things that are long-form if it's not in a physical book, but I found I couldn't stop even though I felt existential dread the entire time. This almost directly replicated some of my life experiences in my career, and I have the GERD (mis)diagnosis to show for it.

  • by glitchc on 2/18/25, 5:49 PM

    It's a brilliant story. I read it end to end, can empathize. Thank you for writing it.

  • by csours on 2/18/25, 8:46 PM

    All I will say is, never work in compliance. You never have enough data or the data you need, because compliance is very important, but never as important as the actual job.

  • by latexr on 2/18/25, 11:43 PM

    > Chris has never once capitalized anything in any written medium. You find his commitment to the style somewhat impressive, given how difficult this is to do in our current era of predictive text and auto-correction. There was a time when you yourself typed everything that way, but the difference is that you were fourteen years old and trying to be “edgy” while writing comments on a fan-run message board about The Simpsons, and he is a supervising manager at a multinational corporation.

  • by momentmaker on 2/18/25, 8:15 PM

    The TV show Severance shows the modern job and office dynamic very well.

  • by RangerScience on 2/18/25, 6:41 PM

    This hits so many feels, and so... effectively. The corporate speak. The callousness. The vapid emptiness. The confusion.

    The confusion - that this thing that seems like it should be excellent, isn't, and is in fact damaging - that's a sign of gaslighting, of being convinced to ignore or dismiss your own sense of reality.

    When we're in these situations, we do know something's wrong, but we doubt; that it's wrong enough, that the wrongness matters, that the wrongness is worthwhile.

    When you know it's wrong enough, you quit. When you know the wrongness is worthwhile, you don't have the dazed malaise. When you doubt your sense of reality, the reality you sense... crumbles.

  • by gangstead on 2/18/25, 11:26 PM

    I feel like I just read The Catcher In the Rye, but for middle aged developers. It was fantastic.

  • by jryan49 on 2/18/25, 6:22 PM

    I recognized the lyrics at the beginning right away. The song is reel big fish’s say goodbye which has some other relevant lyrics

    > I know, you feel like a whore Working for a dream that isn't even yours Pleasing everybody but yourself Would you rather be, somewhere else with someone else?

  • by dgreensp on 2/18/25, 6:35 PM

    When casually-inflicted trauma and indifference to using you effectively, let alone your needs as a human being, are a constant, while other responsibilities come and go and are taken less seriously, it feels like the core of the job.

  • by jollyllama on 2/18/25, 6:49 PM

    Bold move to put this next to one's resume.

  • by LeftHandPath on 2/18/25, 6:16 PM

    What a metaphor. Beautifully written.

  • by rexpop on 2/18/25, 4:57 PM

    I couldn't finish reading this because of the intimately familiar existential nausea it induces, so I scrolled rapidly through it only stopping to observe that it touches on both psychiatry and unemployment in ways that made me glad I hadn't continued reading.

    Frankly, this should be mandatory reading for everyone I've ever worked for.

    Edit: Yeah, wow, this is more depressing than Ted Chiang's Exhalation[1].

    For more in this vein, but with an erotic cyberpunk theme, play the interactive novel Secretary[2].

    Edit 2: Perhaps the antidote to this malaise is a re-read of Hexing the Technical Interview[3].

    1. https://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/exhalation/

    2. https://www.secretarygame.com/

    3. https://aphyr.com/posts/341-hexing-the-technical-interview

  • by light_triad on 2/18/25, 9:35 PM

    This article reminds me of a tidbit about the VOC (Dutch East India Company):

    "There was an extraordinarily high mortality rate among employees of the VOC due to shipwrecks, illnesses such as scurvy and dysentery, and clashes with rival trading companies and pirates. The VOC 'consumed' approximately 4,000 people per year." [1]

    [1] Zanden (1993) The rise and decline of Holland's economy : merchant capitalism and the labour market

  • by memhole on 2/19/25, 2:49 AM

    “The seat at the head of the table remains undisturbed, perhaps reserved for Business Elijah.“

    What a reference! Probably my favorite line of the story.

    I’ve never been good with twiddling my fingers at work. It’s a strange anxiety when you see others go, “yeah, I’m fine with this.”

  • by 1970-01-01 on 2/18/25, 6:48 PM

  • by alabastervlog on 2/18/25, 8:17 PM

    I'd recommend anyone who liked the "perspective character experiencing mental illness" aspects of this check out Atwood's Surfacing.

  • by philomath_mn on 2/18/25, 6:06 PM

    Anyone else feel that they cannot relate to the premise of this essay in any way?

    I mean I'd rather be on a road trip with my kids, but my work is generally pleasant outside infrequent periods of high stress.

  • by dpc050505 on 2/18/25, 5:48 PM

    Honoré de Balzac has a great bit about cashiers in Melmoth reconciled, basically explaining that it's a useless job that stems from a lack of trust (meanwhile the cashier becomes a trustee, which is ironic as if he had ambition he could just leave with the money). I have no idea how good the english translation is, but there's much better literature about bullshit jobs than this.

  • by xg15 on 2/18/25, 11:48 PM

    The protagonist had read a detailed job description, had had a call with the recruiter, then an 180 minute interview marathon that ostensibly went absolutely stellar, then another one-to-one interview with Chris - and only at the very end of it all he gets to know that the position is actually about nothing else than being punched in the gut.

    Not sure if plot hole or even deeper metaphor.

  • by caminanteblanco on 2/19/25, 9:13 AM

    This is easily my favorite read of this year

  • by caseyy on 2/19/25, 9:22 PM

    The guy was piped for dodging the abuse once, but what's more impressive is that it really does happen.

  • by camtarn on 2/18/25, 5:59 PM

    This was an excellent read. Thank you.

  • by nunez on 2/19/25, 4:43 PM

    I did not expect to spend two hours reading a novella submarined into blog post as I was going to bed, but by God, it was totally worth it. This beautifully captured what some of my jobs felt like. Well, well done.

  • by gadders on 2/18/25, 9:00 PM

    Professional boxers, MMA fighters etc must get punched in the stomach most days they train and by experts. I would think getting punched every day by an amateur would be survivable.

    And for some unfortunates, this is their school life.

  • by Boogie_Man on 2/18/25, 8:50 PM

    "I think it's important to pursue cross training opportunities for 'hit by a bus" situations and for organic, cross-pollinated efficiency. At least twice a week we should rotate puncher or punchee. Tuesdays I'll punch you, and Fridays we'll have Diane punch me. Besides, it'll keep your knuckles from getting too sore and it'll free up time on your end of week schedule to get those reports in".

  • by svilen_dobrev on 2/18/25, 6:50 PM

    this sentence caught me..

    > None of what you’ve been saying to people over the course of your career has been a joke.

    But seems, most did take it as such.. or pretended..

    > as you mentally replayed your time at the company.

    and this one.. still hurts.

  • by wildpeaks on 2/18/25, 5:47 PM

    A lot (most ?) people do jobs they don't enjoy to make ends meet, figuratively punched in the stomach yet without the luxury of being highly paid.

  • by hypeatei on 2/18/25, 11:37 PM

    > relieving about the days when he wasn’t physically right there. He still spewed emails and instant messages and ticket comments and video calls, but the physical distance was, you know, nice.

    > You notice, not even a month into this engagement, that you resent the regularity with which you are forced to interact with your supervisor.

    This is very relatable for some reason. I don't hate anyone I work with, but them being physically gone sends a wave of relief over me. Even if it's just for 15 minutes, being in an empty room with no one around really helps me focus and reduces stress.

  • by phtrivier on 2/18/25, 9:13 PM

    I don't understand what this is supposed to be a metaphor for.

    Bullshit / Pointless jobs ? Most are definitely not physically demanding. Meanwhile, our devices run on metals mined by 12 year old kids.

    Toxic bosses ? They probably don't act in the open. And they don't pay well.

    Lack of workplace regulation ? Your continent democratically decided that workplace regulations were bad, so it should be a "gleeful" metaphor ?

    Bad job market ? Then the guy would be accepting a job where he gets punched AND badly paid. But that's not metaphorical: that's a lot of real life jobs.

    So I'm missing something here.

  • by stevoski on 2/18/25, 6:25 PM

    This is awesome. A reminder why I avoid working in the corporate world - or even full time.

  • by axus on 2/18/25, 8:27 PM

    This reads like a more realistic version of leisuretown.com "Q.A. Confidential".

  • by LeifCarrotson on 2/18/25, 5:20 PM

    This is art.

  • by gitpusher on 2/18/25, 5:13 PM

    This made my brain hurt. And not in a good way

  • by thomasjudge on 2/23/25, 4:02 PM

    Almost 26,000 words.

  • by hardlianotion on 2/18/25, 5:30 PM

    Huh. I work on the 17th floor.

  • by renewiltord on 2/18/25, 9:04 PM

    Quite entertaining but could use an editor. Went as expected but the value is in being able to relate.

  • by OutOfHere on 2/18/25, 5:26 PM

    We are at the stage where most creative experienced persons with at least a year or savings (of their expenses) should look to a self-bootstrapped AI-assisted entrepreneurship instead of a job. AI changes the game to enhance the chances of entrepreneurial success. Also, when you are working for yourself, it doesn't really feel like work.

    When you write truth to power, you get downvoted and suppressed!

  • by ikiris on 2/18/25, 5:08 PM

    Can someone post a summary? This is written in a way that’s really hard to read.

  • by quuxplusone on 2/18/25, 7:38 PM

    +1 to everyone saying the style is really hard to read. The second-person narration is part of that; but for my money the biggest problem is that the author can't decide whether the story is being told in present tense or past tense. Pick a point of view and stick with it! Either you're telling the story as it happens (present tense), or you're telling it after it happens (past tense), but you shouldn't keep switching viewpoints with every sentence. Frequently this story switches viewpoints within the same sentence. And it's not done in anything like an intentional style; my default assumption when reading something that feels like bad fanfic is that the writer simply doesn't know any better.

    "This job, it was you. Every sentence, every bullet point, they all described you [...] You fire off a copy of your résumé. [...] As each employee taps their badge, the turnstile emits a pleasant green [...] You were directed to the gate at the far end, which the receptionist opens manually [...] you are absolutely speechless [...] The only words that were polite but nonspecific enough to fill the absolutely dead air that now fills the room."

    Turnstiles emit green pleasantly, as Noam Chomsky might once have said.

    Style points for gratuitous misuse of the word "catachresis." (Autocatachresis?)