from Hacker News

Mass market non-fiction has bad incentives

by bumbledraven on 2/11/25, 7:50 PM with 36 comments

  • by beezlebroxxxxxx on 2/11/25, 8:51 PM

    The author is indeed talking about non-fiction books, but, more specifically, a genre of books that I call "airport books". These are mass-market self-help, HBR fanfic, blogposts, that are bound and sold as books.

    There's a whole higher echelon of non-fiction books that are more like academic books targeting a learned mass culture. These are often academic books with all or most of the footnotes and citations shaved off. Or they're just incredibly well written non-fiction storytelling, like the books of David McCullough, to give one example. Another: the essays by Mark Grief (even his one academic monograph is a stellar read by the standards of academic writing).

    > Because we have too many books already, and publishing as a status play pollutes the information environment.

    Tbh, this writer seems to not realize how much garbage was published in the past. Self-help "slop" has been a perennial catalogue filler for decades, if not centuries. The "too many books" argument runs into, I believe, an unspoken desire by the writer. Eventually you begin to notice what's worth reading and what isn't. You begin to trust certain publishers and writers over others. You begin to cultivate your own tastes and filter. Sometimes, you also just want a syllabus that lays out the "major works" in a field for you. Sometimes you want to find that out for yourself. Which is all to say, this writer seems to be asking for only something like Wikipedia or fiction, with non-fiction books dissolved and absorbed into the former. But one of the best parts of non-fiction writing is the author's point of view, their personality, their voice.

  • by thundergolfer on 2/11/25, 8:40 PM

    Not realizing this is a problem of media literacy. Many people below the median literacy level unfortunately think media literacy means merely understanding that the newspaper might be biased.

    Higher levels of media literacy involve understanding exactly these dynamics described by the author and avoiding this bad kind of non-fiction, mass market non-fiction.

    Another interesting dynamic in fiction writing is that fiction book prices do not scale linearly with page count, but costs kinda do, so authors are discouraged from writing 800 pages tomes like Middlemarch and War & Peace.

  • by phoe-krk on 2/11/25, 8:37 PM

    Reading this most made me immediately think that there's more than just misalignment of the writer and the reader: there's also the incentive of the publisher, which might be misaligned with either, or both, or simply utterly puzzling and confusing.

    Anecdata: as glad as I am for Apress for working with me and releasing my own book about a part of Common Lisp (which is, technically, non-fiction!), I still cannot fathom their re-release of "Interpreting LISP" [1] - a book that I hated to give a zero-star rating on Reddit [2] but that I can only warn people about, if I am to be acting in good faith.

    [1] https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-1-4842-2707-7

    [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/lisp/comments/6qc61v/second_edition...

  • by Insanity on 2/11/25, 8:21 PM

    Sounds more like the author just had bad experiences with non fiction? There are plenty of non fiction books which are good and where the book doesn’t just feel like filler. Some that come to mind quickly :

    - bad blood (about theranos)

    - SPQR

    - King Leopold’s Ghost

    - Lost in Math

    - masters of doom

  • by Ekaros on 2/11/25, 9:51 PM

    I recommend you to sometime go to look at second-hand markets for books. That is less selective antiquarians and especially something like salvation army or flea markets. Places that accept donations of books and then try to resell them for very cheap are good picks. Just browse through some sections and notice the lower range that has been printed. Not just in fiction, but also non-fiction or maybe really weird combinations like horoscope and cookbooks...
  • by kenjackson on 2/11/25, 9:03 PM

    There are services (I use one, but I think there are several) that just do like 2 page summaries of these sorts of books. I just read those.

    That said, I feel like I know most things in most books of this form. My trouble is actually doing what they say. And before you suggest something like Atomic Habits -- I also read the 2-page summary of that book.

  • by bog_hag on 2/11/25, 9:28 PM

    The podcast If Books Could Kill is almost exclusively about exactly this issue.
  • by olelele on 2/12/25, 10:03 AM

    A friend was working for a startup that sells an app with edited, shortened audio-books from non-fiction. Basically doing what the article says, taking out the fluff. I never understood the point of listening to that, but then again I'm probably far from the target group. I also never read self-help non-fiction.

    As far as I understood things a few years ago the company was surviving bc one of the giants bought their service for its employees.

  • by mindwok on 2/11/25, 9:54 PM

    There are rare examples of non fiction books that don’t feel like this, and when you stumble upon them it feels wonderful. For example, I’ve always loved Meditations by Marcus Aurelius for this reason - it was written for him, and so it’s free of the peacocking or status gaming you get in modern self help type books.
  • by samspot on 2/11/25, 8:55 PM

    In my experience these bad books often are missing acknowledgements and citations. If you can't thank a single person for helping make your book, then its not worth reading.
  • by jhsvsmyself on 2/11/25, 8:37 PM

    Author needs a filter for selecting good books. Best one I have found is only read books recommended twice.
  • by jjice on 2/11/25, 8:39 PM

    Yeah I've seen this as well with self betterment non-fiction

    > If you read a few of these books, you inevitably notice the patterns: every chapter begins with an anecdote...

    It really feels like padding sometimes. I've read some books where the anecdote does provide some value as a lead in to a topic, like in Extreme Ownership. Most of the time though, it really feels like a way to hit a publisher minimum page count.

    I personally see a shorter book as a potentially good thing, not a lack of value. Not that page count is a great measure of the value a book can provide, but I definitely don't see it as a negative.