from Hacker News

U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

by Despegar on 2/7/25, 7:45 AM with 1035 comments

by ggm on 2/7/25, 8:27 AM
https://archive.is/3Pp0U
(Although I was able to access the article in full on the original URL)
by Lio on 2/7/25, 3:03 PM
I don't think the UK government would try to put Apple out of business if they don't comply it's more likely that they would just get heavily fined until they do so.
The most likely outcome, I would guess, is that Apple just stop offering Advanced Data Protection as a service in the UK rather than create some kind of backdoor.
It's a weak proposition from the government because anyone with something to hide will just move it somewhere else with encryption. Honest UK consumers are the one's getting the shitty end of the stick because we're about to loose protection from criminals.
Daft waste of time.
by bilekas on 2/7/25, 1:01 PM
> requires that Apple creates a back door that allows UK security officials unencumbered access to encrypted user data worldwide
How could this even be enforced if Apple pulls out cloud services of the UK ?
It's such a ridiculous request, the British Intelligence agencies must be bored coming up with new ways to make Apple look good.
by latexr on 2/7/25, 1:11 PM
> When asked by The Post whether any government had requested a backdoor, Google spokesman Ed Fernandez did not provide a direct answer but suggested none exist: "Google cannot access Android end-to-end encrypted backup data, even with a legal order," he stated.
No, that does not suggest none exists, it only says they don’t have access to it. They could have chosen or have been ordered to give the keys to the government agency but not keep one themselves. I’m not saying that’s likely, just that it’s important to not take these statements as saying more than they do. They wouldn’t hesitate to use “technically correct” as a defence and you have to take that into account.
by negus on 2/7/25, 2:11 PM
Not surprised, considering UK's ridiculous key disclosure law (United Kingdom The Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 (RIPA), Part III, activated by ministerial order in October 2007, requires persons to decrypt information and/or supply keys to government representatives to decrypt information without a court order.) that makes anyone with high-entropy random data (which is undistinguishable from the crypto-container) a criminal for "not providing the keys to decrypt"
by cpymchn on 2/7/25, 12:59 PM
What's new here?
As mentioned in the article, Salt Typhoon and the recency of this request by the UK. At this point they should know better.
My pet theory is anytime the US wants to do something illegal under US law, they simply ask the UK to do it and vice versa. That's why Salt Typhoon isn't and never will be a lesson learned.
by botanical76 on 2/7/25, 1:12 PM
This is so disheartening. I thought we were making progress in the anti-surveillance privacy narrative, but this says otherwise. As a UK citizen, is there anything I can do to dissuade this?
edit: typo
by Havoc on 2/7/25, 1:25 PM
UK tech laws seem to consistently be the worst of both worlds. Not rights centric like the EU and not business supportive like the US.
Just old people making bad laws about stuff they don't understand - or are straight up citizen hostile, sometimes hard to tell which it is.
by newscracker on 2/7/25, 9:42 AM
Archive link: https://archive.is/3Pp0U
I was wondering whether this is about Advanced Data Protection, which encrypts almost all data end-to-end on iCloud. It’s only later in this report that it gets into this key detail:
> At issue is cloud storage that only the user, not Apple, can unlock. Apple started rolling out the option, which it calls Advanced Data Protection, in 2022.
Before stating this, the article says:
> Rather than break the security promises it made to its users everywhere, Apple is likely to stop offering encrypted storage in the U.K., the people said.
This means Apple would be prevented from providing Advanced Data Protection to users in the U.K.
Not making Advanced Data Protection available is made worse by this requirement:
> One of the people briefed on the situation, a consultant advising the United States on encryption matters, said Apple would be barred from warning its users that its most advanced encryption no longer provided full security.
Apple can appeal, but is forced to comply meanwhile (until the appeal is heard) anyway:
> Apple can appeal the U.K. capability notice to a secret technical panel, which would consider arguments about the expense of the requirement, and to a judge who would weigh whether the request was in proportion to the government’s needs. But the law does not permit Apple to delay complying during an appeal.
by necovek on 2/8/25, 11:40 AM
Democracies around the world are increasingly looking to surveil and expose private data of their citizens, and introducing laws where simple act of defiance will become criminal.
I believe we should increasingly turn to steganography as a way to ensure our privacy (obviously, combined with encryption). Something that provides simple plausible deniability but lots of data to use as a carrying medium should become the default selection (like "personal videos" — a great use for our phone cameras to build an extensive collection), so even if "identified" as potential carrier for the data, it would be impossible to convict someone over it.
I can imagine a scheme where your secret passphrase defines what bits of data in a video to use to carry actual data and yet avoid changing the output too much. Obviously, coming with a non-reversible algorithm that takes into account different lossy video encoding schemes is non-trivial, though I am sure there is some (plenty?) prior art to build off of.
by Kim_Bruning on 2/7/25, 6:24 PM
For years, law enforcement pushed for encryption backdoors, arguing they were necessary to combat crime and terrorism.
In the US, after Salt Typhoon compromised telecom networks—including court-authorized wiretap systems—the FBI has now (somewhat reluctantly, I think) started advising government officials to use end-to-end encrypted apps like Signal and WhatsApp to protect themselves. [1]
I think the UK government is running a bit behind wrt Encryption.
[1] https://www.npr.org/2024/12/17/nx-s1-5223490/text-messaging-...
by maeil on 2/7/25, 1:20 PM
From the macrumors thread:
> So much for personal liberties. I'd like to give Labour the benefit of the doubt and assume this is a holdover from the last government knowing how fast the civil service actually works but given the Tory 3.0 plan they are going with I wouldn't put it passed them.
>We didn't vote for this.
You very much did vote for this, you voted for Labour under Keir Starmer and he did not particularly hide his being tory-lite. If one is surprised by this they must not have paid any attention before voting.
by blindriver on 2/7/25, 7:08 PM
The US is the only country with codified freedoms from the government. Every other country has rights given by the government to their citizens.
The US may suck every now and then, but the US constitution is one of the best things in human history. It protects us from governments like the UK that don't think they have any limits to control their citizens.
by Funes- on 2/7/25, 2:31 PM
Further proof against the idea that we live in "democracies", if anyone still believes that. We're at the hands of petty tyrants. Modern societies are surveillance hellholes, and it seems to only get worse and worse. So much for "progress".
by WhyNotHugo on 2/8/25, 10:30 AM
If a company starts hosting backups for millions of users across the world, the become a natural target of such court orders.
The only way to prevent this is to avoid this huge, massive, centralisation. Of course, Apple wouldn’t want this.
If we had lots of smaller scale hosting providers around the world (potentially dozens per country), the scope of attacking each one with such an order is much smaller.
by joey_spaztard on 2/7/25, 3:12 PM
My response would be along the lines of:
"The USA fought a war in part because they did not like the use of general writs of assistance to allow agents of the British King to search peoples houses and papers where their suspicion chanced to fall. The UK lost that war so no way!"
by cedws on 2/7/25, 3:18 PM
The UK government drops the ball on just about every matter the public care about, but when it comes to overreaching digital surveillance, they're absolutely obsessed.
by elevatedastalt on 2/7/25, 6:39 PM
I feel Apple is one of the few companies that has the market power to say, Fuck you, we will just not sell or offer any services in your market, and I suspect that would be enough for voters to knock some sense into their government.
by foundart on 2/7/25, 12:15 PM
The order does not seem to apply only to users in the U.K.
From the article, discussing the idea of Apple stopping offering encryption in the U.K.
“Yet that concession would not fulfill the U.K. demand for backdoor access to the service in other countries, including the United States”
by flanked-evergl on 2/7/25, 2:09 PM
The writing is on the wall for the UK, has been for long, and the Labour government is going out of the way to ensure there can never be any reform, even if they have no mandate. There is one way they want to go, and they will drag their population along kicking and screaming. Anyone who can should get out.
by nntwozz on 2/8/25, 12:06 PM
“Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.” — Benjamin Franklin
by ggm on 2/7/25, 8:29 AM
Presumably the US government will have no compunction in using this to view US citizens private materials under UK government access rights, irrespective of US privacy law.
by pastyboy on 2/7/25, 3:12 PM
"Stupid is as stupid does...", this is the same Home Office Minister, Yvette Cooper (Flipper) that says pointy kitchen knives and Amazon orders are the reason for knife crime epidemic in the UK. Next up x.com banned from the UK.
by Ekaros on 2/7/25, 8:16 AM
The government did get more than third of the votes. So this is the choice of democratically elected government and the voters and as such should be followed.
by ksec on 2/7/25, 10:20 AM
Just make TimeCapsule for iOS and iPadOS. With option to store it fully encrypted in AWS cold storage as Apple subscription. I want my data to stay at home.
by captainbland on 2/7/25, 1:39 PM
Given recent polling, we have to assume that what is MI5's today will be Reform's tomorrow. We have to ask what our government and judiciary are doing putting our privacy in the hands of the far-right.
by kazinator on 2/7/25, 8:53 AM
The bad guys know where to find solid open source crypto for their cloud backups and whatnot.
Therefore you know this is not about chasing the bad guys. It's about keeping the Average Joe under the thumb.
by ARandomerDude on 2/7/25, 3:45 PM
In 10 years we'll all be shocked to discover this headline should have read "US Tells UK to Demand Apple Create Global iCloud Encryption Backdoor".
by GeekyBear on 2/7/25, 2:04 PM
It will be interesting to see if Apple will follow up on comments they made when this change was first floated, and remove effected services from the UK.
> Apple says it will remove services such as FaceTime and iMessage from the UK rather than weaken security if new proposals are made law and acted upon.
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-66256081
by hatwd on 2/8/25, 4:52 PM
It's baffling to me that any sane, healthy person would advocate for invasion of not just one person's privacy (in the case of known or highly suspected criminal activity), but a whole country's people's privacy. (In this case, at least, the privacy of all Apple users in the UK.)
Where does this problem start? Is it a basic education thing that valuing one's own and others' privacy needs to be taught to kids from a young age?
For instance, in the meetings in which these ideas are proposed, why are they not considered a serious, fireable offence, like bringing up racist or sexist comments?
by sharpshadow on 2/7/25, 1:21 PM
Question: Would it be technically feasible to make an Apple app which encrypts/decrypts the files used in iCloud and is able to use iCloud itself?
As a solution to never have unencrypted files in iCloud.
by jonplackett on 2/7/25, 2:02 PM
I was hoping this dreamland thinking on encryption had died with our last sorry excuse for a government.
I thought we had grown ups running the show now. Clearly that was optimistic.
by StackTopherFlow on 2/7/25, 4:59 PM
I’d love to see a collection of every attempt to add encryption back doors to apple/iPhone products. It feels like they never stop trying.
by f4c39012 on 2/7/25, 4:02 PM
Where is my iCloud data stored? If I visit China, is a copy stored there? If my phone is from China, but i live in the USA, where is my iCloud data? Is it replicated globally? I once asked in an Apple store, but no-one knew the answer
by rtkwe on 2/7/25, 5:17 PM
It'd be nice to not have to have this fight every 3-5 years but privacy is antithetical to the role of the security services so they're never going to give it up.
by cbeach on 2/7/25, 10:25 AM
I’m so ashamed to be a U.K. citizen and to have both legacy parties (Tories and Labour) staunchly supporting these horrendous breaches of privacy.
We have had a number of bad laws over the last ten years that have entrenched state surveillance and presumption of guilt.
The only party I can see taking a principled stance on civil liberties is Reform UK, whose policy document states:
> A British Bill of Rights
> Our freedoms must be codified and guaranteed. Never again can our entire country be locked down on shoddy evidence and lies. Our data and privacy must be protected. Surveillance of the public must be limited and those monitoring us held to account.
https://assets.nationbuilder.com/reformuk/pages/253/attachme...
Recent polls show Reform is currently the most popular party. So there is hope.
by fdb345 on 2/8/25, 1:09 AM
I personally pissed all over the NCA with a Pixel 3 and a 6 digit pin + Graphene OS.
UK Law Enforcement can suck my dick.
Encryption works people. Use it.
by arghandugh on 2/7/25, 4:41 PM
Love swinging through here to collect the latest crop of:
- that’s silly - they can’t do that legally - this makes no technical sense - this is a bad idea - this will never happen
The entire globe becomes Xi Jinpeng’s China with American Characteristics after the iCloud encryption system is neutered and a court warrant is no longer needed.
by throw0101d on 2/7/25, 12:19 PM
See also "U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts":
> The law, known by critics as the Snoopers’ Charter, makes it a criminal offense to reveal that the government has even made such a demand. An Apple spokesman declined to comment.
* https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2025/02/07/apple-e...
* https://archive.is/https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology...
> The Investigatory Powers Act 2016 (c. 25) (nicknamed the Snoopers' Charter)[1] is an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom which received royal assent on 29 November 2016.[2][3] Its different parts came into force on various dates from 30 December 2016.[4] The Act comprehensively sets out and in limited respects expands the electronic surveillance powers of the British intelligence agencies and police.[4] It also claims to improve the safeguards on the exercise of those powers.[5]
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investigatory_Powers_Act_2016
by DarkBell13 on 2/7/25, 10:22 PM
The extraterritorial effect of the law is profoundly troubling, especially the prohibition on revealing the existence of the Technical Capability Notice. However, Apple would almost certainly be subject to lawsuits in the US and EU if it secretly added a backdoor to iCloud Advanced Data Protection, because doing so would violate their privacy policy and would likely give rise to fraud claims. They could kill iCloud Advanced Data Protection entirely, or they could add a backdoor and say there is a backdoor, but they could not, without being exposed to liability, secretly add a backdoor while simultaneously claiming that the data is end-to-end encrypted and nobody other than the user can access the data.
by DarkmSparks on 2/8/25, 2:05 PM
Seems like the UK really does need Musks help(1).
1: https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1876174862747930717?lang=en
by givemeethekeys on 2/7/25, 9:03 AM
Apple should green bubble all UK text messages and explain that it is the law.
by nisten on 2/8/25, 7:42 AM
Considering that the only tool that humans have to manage AI is the mathematical guarantee of both practically unbreakable and even theoretically unbreakable encryption maths alongside the inherent safety of an ecosystem of human enslaved AIs (or whatever nicer way there is to say that), then this is by default the most dangerous worst possible action a government could initiate towards destroying AI safety at both an individual and "ecosystem"-wide level.
This is not my opinion, this is just logic.
My opinion on this is that these people are f***g retarded.
by throwaway290 on 2/7/25, 2:50 PM
Surprising that UK specifically demanded a worldwide backdoor, not just backdoor for UK citizens. Looks like a good workaround for this US gov to get info on Americans via 5 eyes.
DOGE was recently unable to obtain data on Americans (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/elon-musks-doge-deal...), maybe related...
by ggm on 2/8/25, 1:18 AM
Apple have about 50% of the UK handset market. It's 80m terminals so that's 40m x their estimated profit of $500 per phone, so $20b (sure, currency, tax, you name it)
Does Apple lose much, in future revenue if people buy out of the ecology in the UK market? At scale, sure. But then again no. It's a 3.8 trillion dollar company. This is almost noise.
I don't think there will be a rush to the door. Set against overall revenue targets, they can comply and weather the storm.
by biohcacker84 on 2/7/25, 5:43 PM
Constitutionally guaranteed privacy and free speech have made America... the world leader.
America used to push the rest of the world to give their people those rights. Used to....
by amriksohata on 2/7/25, 5:34 PM
Why is this not said in the same light as politics in the US? E.g trump government demands...so in this case its Labour's Starmer government?
by atlgator on 2/8/25, 2:57 AM
Can Apple please play hardball here? Just discontinue support for iCloud in the UK. Let the people complain to their representatives.
by ksec on 2/7/25, 1:44 PM
Just make TimeCapsule for iOS and iPadOS. With option to store it fully encrypted in AWS cold storage as Apple subscription.
by somenameforme on 2/8/25, 6:28 AM
There is so much utterly cynical LARPing in that article. Apple was one of the earliest members to join PRISM. [1] And given the nature of the 5-eyes surveillance [2], The British government almost certainly already has access to 'encrypted' accounts from Apple. The difference is that that access is probably not lawful, which means they need to engage in parallel construction as is already regularly done in the US [3] if/when using it in court cases. All this change would likely do is enable them to use the data directly.
I felt an obligation to excessively site stuff here, because I find it bemusing anybody in tech can take such articles or topics at face value.
[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM
[2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes
[3] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction#By_the_U...
by adamtaylor_13 on 2/7/25, 7:45 PM
The complete lack of any kind of technological understanding by the people in power of most major governments is a huge existential risk. Thankfully businesses like Apple are completely staked on privacy, but Apple is actually big enough to give a middle finger to the UK. Other companies might not be able to.
by greenavocado on 2/7/25, 3:07 PM
It wouldn't be the first time Apple did extremely shady things for the government https://tidbits.com/2020/08/17/the-case-of-the-top-secret-ip...
by ninalanyon on 2/7/25, 3:55 PM
Surely any moderately sophisticated group of criminals can simply create there own end to end encryption apps. So even if the UK, or other governments, get there own way they will only et to see the content related to the less competent criminals. Perhaps it's still worth it to some.
by localghost3000 on 2/7/25, 7:04 PM
This kind of thing makes me furious. I know there’s the EFF but what can someone concerned with privacy advocacy do in the face of these kinds of things? Are there orgs and political movements that are out there already? Privacy is a human right. IMO it’s one of the big issues of our time.
by mrcwinn on 2/7/25, 2:59 PM
You cannot acknowledge the existence of a request by the UK. You cannot tell users you implemented the proposed system. And you must do all of this to citizens who have no representation in your system, without the consent of their governments.
It all begs the question, what else have they requested, and of those which requests were accepted secretly?
Truly a pathetic example of a democracy.
by sneak on 2/7/25, 4:16 PM
There is already a global iCloud encryption backdoor.
iCloud Backup is not end to end encrypted. iCloud Photos is not end to end encrypted.
Apple can read all of your iMessages and see all of your photos.
The governments where they operate can compel them to turn over this data. They can and do. Often.
Operationally this doesn’t really change much.
by 1vuio0pswjnm7 on 2/7/25, 8:23 PM
Funny that the government does not need to order people to divulge their private communications.
It can just order to a third party do so. Wait, why does a third party have access to peoples' private communications. That is the Apple design. The company wants people to use their servers.
by secretsatan on 2/8/25, 10:14 PM
This is fucked, TBH, i would be happier if Apple jus pulled every single aspect of their business out of the UK rather than comply with this, I don't want to get some shitty android phone, I don't care what anyone says, theu are just not as good.
by PicassoCTs on 2/8/25, 11:10 AM
That is what remains when a government grows to incompetent, the fear of the citizen, who sure is planning "something" as he should, for such incompetence shall not get away. Paranoia is the subconscious awareness of institutional incompetence.
by Puts on 2/7/25, 2:23 PM
This would mean that they would have access to everything stored in Keychain too if you have that synced with iCloud… Which I believe probably most people have. So they will essentially have access to millions of peoples email accounts then.
by pabs3 on 2/8/25, 2:13 AM
I wonder how UK politicians would feel about being no longer able to use their iPhones.
by bsimpson on 2/7/25, 10:53 PM
> We do not comment on operational matters, including for example confirming or denying the existence of any such notices
Cloaking mass privacy violations under "operational matters" is the most doublespeak bullshit I've ever heard.
by rchivalry on 2/7/25, 8:41 PM
Encryption is encryption. If this is for dirt digging or evidence for police... then make the person provide it instead. Spy agencies just have to deal with it. Sure there are other ways of tapping information.
by smsm42 on 2/7/25, 8:41 PM
I'm pretty sure this is not unique to Apple. They likely served the same order to Google, Microsoft, and any other major provider that has any user data. And most of them complied without objection.
by lrvick on 2/8/25, 1:45 PM
Never use corporate controlled encryption and court orders to corporations will never impact you.
If you do not control the keys and the software that controls the keys, then you are not using end to end encryption.
by kittikitti on 2/8/25, 6:15 PM
The moment this happens, I will stop using an iPhone and switch to a mainline Linux phone like Pinephone. Android is far worse though and you can't even uninstall Meta apps.
by tempodox on 2/7/25, 3:14 PM
Maybe the EU should be glad that the UK is not a member any more.
by maxglute on 2/7/25, 4:53 PM
Is this something UK demanded, or a FVEY loophole from other partners. Does US still need to fiddle with legal loop holes to surveille on domestic citizens after Cloud?
by aryehof on 2/8/25, 10:48 AM
So the whole article is based on “people familiar with the matter”. I suspect that the real motivation, truth and substance lies beyond the “enrage” oriented title.
by mmaunder on 2/8/25, 12:52 PM
This is exactly the arrangement five eyes had with partners, spying on citizens of partner countries to circumvent laws preventing local authorities doing so.
by matt-p on 2/8/25, 12:33 AM
This really doesn't feel like a position that we'd really care about, I would wager this is something we'd be doing for our American friends.
by bn-l on 2/7/25, 3:27 PM
That is an extremely corrupt and authoritarian government.
by aaomidi on 2/7/25, 1:41 PM
Gross behavior. But not surprised. UK is a real surveillance state.
In my honest opinion, in this specific context UK should be treated with the same scrutiny we treat China.
by nico on 2/7/25, 5:57 PM
If it happens, likely the main beneficiary of this would be the US govt
Through Five Eyes the US agencies could, via the UK, get global access to iCloud accounts
No need to change US law
by justinzollars on 2/8/25, 4:33 AM
The UK is as important as Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe, is probably a bit more relevant to the future. Unplug the UK. No way we should follow this law.
by hardlianotion on 2/7/25, 1:42 PM
Apple should tell those ignorant fuckwits to do one.
by reify on 2/7/25, 12:43 PM
I doubt very much if any terrorist, criminal or child abuser is going to use any google or apple cloud service to back up their files.
Anyone with a fundamental understanding of online privacy and security would encrypt any files prior to uploading them to the cloud rendering any back doors and access to those files useless and toothless.
I dont use any of these services. I have never understood the thinking around uploading your private life to some server in the cloud when they are more secure on an external hard drive at home.
by ggm on 2/7/25, 8:28 AM
Rather than break the security promises it made to its users everywhere, Apple is likely to stop offering encrypted storage in the U.K., the people said. Yet that concession would not fulfill the U.K. demand for backdoor access to the service in other countries, including the United States.
by hassleblad23 on 2/7/25, 6:38 PM
Complete waste of time. At this point I am not sure if its Europe not wanting to understand, or the lack of abilityto understand.
by octacat on 2/7/25, 3:32 PM
EU/UK is like: - we care about your privacy and will not allow censorship.
And the next day this or blocking DeepSeek (in Italy).
by secretsatan on 2/8/25, 10:17 PM
OK, We've found out Apple, but not all the others? Has google and meta got the same but maintained silence?
by gigatexal on 2/8/25, 4:53 PM
If this passes and Apple has to break encryption worldwide I hope they leave the UK. They won’t but they should.
by nick3443 on 2/7/25, 2:56 PM
This is fine as long as citizens get backdoors into all government accounts. They have nothing to hide after all.
by dehrmann on 2/8/25, 3:13 AM
Also on the front page, "German civil activists win victory in election case against Musk's X"
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42975170
They're not exactly the same, but you should have similar feelings about forcing a company to hand over data to researchers and forcing a company to install a back door for law enforcement.
by mistercheph on 2/7/25, 10:14 PM
UK is a dystopian nightmare, very grateful to the founding fathers for sending them back to the island.
by isaacremuant on 2/7/25, 7:19 PM
The funny thing is that anyone pointing out authoritarianism will get downvoted with a whole bunch of partisan arguments or left/right false dichotomies.
Here we are, though, at the point where the government overreach for these "beacons of democracy" such as US and UK do this often and by design and we're all supposed to pretend "thing are fine, trust us". Next they'll push some other overreach using children, terrorism, drugs or some other usual excuse and people will defend it pretending the government has good intentions and largely works for the people.
by jrexilius on 2/7/25, 6:19 PM
So UK gov is demanding similar access as China? Not a good look for a supposed free democracy..
by joemazerino on 2/7/25, 9:19 PM
All of a sudden, 100 nerds start seeing the UK government for what it's been: tyrannical.
by aucisson_masque on 2/7/25, 9:34 PM
> the law actually makes it a criminal offense to reveal that the government even made such a demand.
Why is it tho ? The government has something to hide ? i mean it's complete bullshit, citizen have the right to privacy and government has the obligation of transparency and being accountable to its citizens.
When did the UK turned into a middle east dictatorship ?
> Google has enforced default encryption for Android phone backups since 2018. When asked by The Post whether any government had requested a backdoor, Google spokesman Ed Fernandez did not provide a direct answer but suggested none exist: "Google cannot access Android end-to-end encrypted backup data, even with a legal order," he stated.
That is absolutely laughable. If the uk government couldn't access google data, they would have ordered google the same thing they did with apple.
Apple theoretically can't access their user data when e2e encryption is enabled yet the uk government doesn't care. how does that differ from google ?
once again, if you want your data to be safe from google, apple, and the others you got to avoid all cloud and resort to use good old hard drive with encryption.
the only ones getting fcked are once again the average people who don't have much to hide in the first place, the pedophiles and terrorist they are much more aware than the old fart at the government on how to stay hidden.
by amelius on 2/8/25, 12:20 PM
Isn't ARM based in the UK, and can't they make a backdoor that way?
by j-bos on 2/8/25, 11:03 AM
Behavior like this makes me question sourcing software releases from the UK.
by caycep on 2/7/25, 8:29 PM
Does apple have a canary provision in their EULA / TOS somewhere?
by reacharavindh on 2/7/25, 2:23 PM
Does it mean they already have such a backdoor on all Android phones?
by rchivalry on 2/7/25, 8:38 PM
Encryption is encryption. Purposely breaking it defeats the purpose.
by silexia on 2/11/25, 9:52 PM
This is why it is so important to shrink the size of the US government. As government gets bigger, it tends to make more and more demands like this. And if you refuse, they will imprison you.
by zimpenfish on 2/7/25, 4:30 PM
It's pretty funny that as the US implodes, UKGOV, instead of grasping the opportunity to show that they're the new good option for your internet service needs, decides to blow not one but both kneecaps clean off with the doubly whammy of the OSA/Ofcom debacle[0] and now this farce.
(I suppose the silver lining is that Starmer is merely sidling towards Trump as his new best mate rather than the full-throated slobbering that Johnson/Truss/Sunak would have given him.)
[0] I know this is primarily the fault of the last lot but this shower of onions haven't done anything to roll it back and/or clarify WTF is going on.
by b8 on 2/7/25, 6:27 PM
Not surprising as the UK wants to ban E2EE too.
by fsflover on 2/7/25, 12:39 PM
Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42970412
by Andrew_nenakhov on 2/7/25, 8:55 PM
New tariffs on UK in 3... 2... 1... ?
by pmarreck on 2/7/25, 7:40 PM
I hope Apple's answer is simply:
"No."
by stalfosknight on 2/7/25, 8:03 PM
Why must the UK be like this?
by xyst on 2/7/25, 4:32 PM
Black hats love this
by KurSix on 2/8/25, 6:21 PM
Once again, governments push for backdoors under the guise of security, ignoring that any vulnerability they introduce can and will be exploited by bad actors. If Apple caves to this demand, it sets a precedent for every other country... Privacy isn't just a marketing gimmick! It's a fundamental right
by smeeger on 2/7/25, 5:54 PM
the UK needs to be slapped in the face. wake up man!
by ein0p on 2/8/25, 7:05 PM
I don't assume in general that any of cloud services in the US are free of government surveillance either. Your only hope for any kind of privacy is self-hosting, and using certs issued by your own CA (I strongly suspect Let's Encrypt is a honeypot). Likewise I strongly suspect Proton Mail and Signal are both honeypots. Tucker Carlson was spied on when arranging his interview with Putin, even though he uses Signal. This likely bypasses the protocol - you don't get to examine the binary that's installed on your phone. It could contain all sorts of Five Eyes special sauce, as could iOS, and the companies won't even be able to tell you about any of it. It's safe to assume that all VPNs are tapped, too, unless you run your own.
by jonplackett on 2/8/25, 11:59 AM
I saw a comment earlier about this being the USA asking the UK to do this.
Sounds like quite the conspiracy theory, but if the USA were not OK with this, the UK surely wouldn’t dare to take on a crown jewel in the US tech sector, potentially causing them serious problems.
by devwastaken on 2/7/25, 3:28 PM
time to pull business out of the U.K. then.
by m3kw9 on 2/7/25, 4:54 PM
Why not just require all data on the icloud be sent to a server all unencrypted? Ain’t no difference. Apple isn’t gonna do it and Trump will tell UK to shove it
by stainablesteel on 2/7/25, 4:38 PM
well it was nice knowing you, UK
by sitkack on 2/7/25, 11:57 PM
I am leaving the Apple ecosystem.
by Malidir on 2/7/25, 3:28 PM
I assume its the USA using the UK to do its dirty work, as always?
Hence why Trump was cheering on Starmer the other day, despite all that has gone on between them.
Americans need to wake up and realise their state uses uk/israel to do what they don't want to be seen to be doing.
by gadders on 2/7/25, 2:59 PM
Imagine all the unfinished screenplays they will get access to.
by gavin_gee on 2/7/25, 11:42 PM
With the increased caliber of software folks in Trumps orbit, my sense is we will have a much more informed decision from the Whitehouse on this topic and whether the US should weigh into the fray with the UK.
as a side note, its really baffling what this capability would actually provide for? Any serious criminal isn't using icloud backup or even an iPhone in the first place. So this is just a shit outcome for the general population.
If this goes through, I look forward to the news of the world expose on some cabinet members personal details
by renecito on 2/7/25, 6:32 PM
good luck with that :D
by m3kw9 on 2/7/25, 4:51 PM
lol the f they will
by lasermike026 on 2/7/25, 5:05 PM
How about NO. Fuck off.
by mariconrobot on 2/8/25, 1:56 PM
everyone needs to just belly laugh. at some point. would be grand if it were collective and all inclusive
by mariconrobot on 2/11/25, 5:12 AM
the world is gayer by the day
by hsuduebc2 on 2/8/25, 1:48 PM
Headline should be "Someone other than US want's to access your data and that's scandalous for some reason".
by hunglee2 on 2/7/25, 8:08 AM
US tech needs to obey the laws of the country in which it operates. I am sure the demands of UK government are more than reasonable - and, as it is a democracy - as full endorsement of the people / users