by medler on 2/2/25, 7:12 PM with 2991 comments
by DemocracyFTW2 on 2/2/25, 8:45 PM
by jimkleiber on 2/4/25, 7:02 AM
This drive for uber efficiency can 1) make government more fragile (see toilet paper supply issues during the pandemic) and 2) be a slippery slope to dehumanization (see paper clip maximizing problem).
by h197BQcV on 2/3/25, 8:10 PM
It seems clear where this is going. Data mining and algorithmic (claimed!) efficiency improvements while working on an essential and critical production system.
Since these people claim that "AI" does not need to respect privacy and copyright, perhaps they'll also train a model on this.
Where are the Democrats on all this? There is hardly any opposition. Are they not interrupting their enemy while he is making mistakes? That would be the only explanation.
by xnx on 2/3/25, 7:50 PM
Feels like Chesterton fences are getting torn up left and right by people too young and incurious to possibly understand why those fences might be there.
by ian_d on 2/3/25, 8:07 PM
by m463 on 2/3/25, 8:13 PM
But what is the goal? Maybe what goal to they think they're pursuing? This is hacker news, so I'm asking for an answer without political rhetoric.
by troelsSteegin on 2/2/25, 8:36 PM
[0] https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/esta...
by siliconc0w on 2/3/25, 9:22 PM
Of course to do that would require actual coalition building, hard choices that upset voters, and congressional approval. Instead they'll going to disrupt some of the highest ROI small-money grants like food or medicine to impoverished countries because they don't have any representation.
It won't meaningfully reduce the deficit and means we we're signing up for warlords and global instability in the near future.
by fifilura on 2/3/25, 8:50 PM
This is to make any doubts regarding e.g USAID public instead of making such drastic measures necessary.
But also make work of an entity such as Doge transparent. They are after all funded by my money (as a taxpayer).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_public_access_to_...
by tqi on 2/4/25, 5:27 PM
But apparently in this country, you have to be either pro government waste or pro DOGE. No middle ground or common sense allowed.
by trhway on 2/3/25, 10:59 PM
Btw, i wonder how many of those raiding the government offices are really DOGE people and not say Russian or Chinese agents pretending to be DOGE - if one to believe the news the security let them into the building once they threatened to call Marshals Service (social engineering DOGE style. That clearly shows couple things - 1. DOGE themselves didn't bother to get proper paperwork, clearances, etc., a "promising" start so to speak and 2. that at least the building security part of the government there got totally rotten as it failed to perform their basic duties. And the agencies' (Treasury(!), USAID,...) employees just giving their laptops and access to internal systems to the first schmuck supposedly from some DOGE - and that all after years of trainings of "don't leave your screen unlocked", "don't give sensitive info to the strangers pretending to be your higher-up or a colleague" . Really shows the effectiveness of all those trainings :)
by markus_zhang on 2/3/25, 9:15 PM
by user32489318 on 2/3/25, 8:40 PM
by vitajex on 2/3/25, 7:55 PM
by andyjohnson0 on 2/4/25, 10:30 AM
"Avoid, at all costs, arriving at a scenario where the ground-up rewrite starts to look attractive"
Seems to me that in their narrow, reckless arrogance they're doing something similar to the mechanisms of government. This is all broken and people who built it were idiots. Lets just scrap it and built it again with a modern stack.
Chesterton's fence, metacognitive ability, overconfidence effect, those who do not learn from history, etc.
by abvdasker on 2/5/25, 4:48 PM
by tomrod on 2/4/25, 4:30 AM
by __MatrixMan__ on 2/4/25, 1:14 AM
Congress gets to make laws. They can intervene by making a law that allows them to intervene, which is the job we elected them to do. Apparently they prefer getting bossed around instead.
by readthenotes1 on 2/3/25, 7:55 PM
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/this-21-year-old-u...
It seems to me like it really appropriate background...
by angry_octet on 2/4/25, 12:59 AM
by chmorgan_ on 2/4/25, 2:48 AM
by niceice on 2/3/25, 11:01 PM
Our current gerontocracy is ahistorical.
Perhaps one reason startups work so well is they are one of the few places that still let young people exert agency.
The average age of NASA’s mission control team during the Apollo era was 27— they put humans on the moon. Young people bring a force of curiosity and creativity that can disrupt the status quo. If we’re serious about cutting waste in gov spending, let’s not turn away new minds.
The guys featured in this gross and irresponsible hit piece by Wired, by all accounts, are brilliant engineers. Top 1%.
- one decoded the Herculaneum Papyrii at the age of 20, winning the Vesuvius Challenge
- another built a startup funded by OpenAI
- one interned at SpaceX and got a Thiel Fellowship
- another was a top engineer at a major AI firm
This is who they are bullying and putting a target on. The best of us nerds. https://x.com/anothercohen/status/1886480470185001025
by picafrost on 2/3/25, 8:51 PM
by charlescearl on 2/3/25, 8:23 PM
https://sfonline.barnard.edu/ruth-wilson-gilmore-in-the-shad...
by tines on 2/3/25, 11:21 PM
According to https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-us-aid-going-ukraine, "It’s important to note that of the $175 billion total, only $106 billion directly aids the government of Ukraine. Most of the remainder is funding various U.S. activities associated with the war in Ukraine, and a small portion supports other affected countries in the region." Of that $106, about $70 billion is weapons, $33 is budget support. So it makes sense that lawmakers would claim that "We sent Ukraine $175 billion!" and Zelenskyy would directly see less than $175.
The the line from Zelenskyy is an attempt to clarify to the world that $X billion in a bill somewhere doesn't equate to $X billion on the ground in Ukraine directly; he's not saying there was some kind of corruption involved and that the money mysteriously disappeared.
by craftsman on 2/4/25, 6:06 PM
D.O.G.E.: Make your repos public. Let's see what you are doing. And if you don't have repos, write a script to mirror the codebase and your diffs.
by msie on 2/4/25, 9:06 AM
by EGreg on 2/4/25, 2:16 AM
So I actually got excited about tackling waste, and wrote this cover letter:
https://magarshak.com/resume-cover-letter.php
Little did I know this admin was going to be shutting down datasets from data.gov and other crap. I really tried to bring something positive into it, but it's just more of the same. They sidelined Vivek too.
by sam345 on 2/4/25, 4:08 AM
by mldqj on 2/4/25, 7:03 AM
by fzliu on 2/3/25, 7:41 PM
by iAm25626 on 2/3/25, 10:32 PM
by BigParm on 2/4/25, 10:55 AM
by alp1n3_eth on 2/4/25, 12:47 PM
Not to mention they've probably already accessed Secret and up levels of classified data without a clearance, which would get any normal gov employee fired and potentially thrown in jail depending on the offense.
I also want to highlight that OPM is the backbone of workers rights for the government. Most skilled positions working directly for the gov are already underpaid. OPM was one of the few pros they had to offer; robust worker rights that are required across the fed.
by hintymad on 2/3/25, 10:40 PM
by linuxhansl on 2/4/25, 1:29 AM
by stormfather on 2/4/25, 3:01 PM
This is better hyperinflation or a violent revolution, at least, which is what it avoids for us. Anyone who doesn't see that hasn't done the thought experiment of extrapolating out our spending for a few more decades. It can't continue, period. Period. Our only choice is how to change it and our democracy (congresspuppets controlled by lobbies) fundamentally cannot fix this. Does anyone have a better idea that will actually work?
by leonewton253 on 2/4/25, 6:39 AM
by sam345 on 2/4/25, 3:53 AM
by quantisan on 2/3/25, 9:39 PM
by nomendos on 2/8/25, 10:29 PM
by macagain on 2/3/25, 10:45 PM
why is this redirecting to lifetips.it ? did archive.today get hacked?
by flaque on 2/3/25, 8:14 PM
by stainablesteel on 2/4/25, 12:19 AM
> Most governments don’t want USAID funds flowing into their countries because they understand where much of that money actually ends up.
> While marketed as support for development, democracy, and human rights, the majority of these funds are funneled into opposition groups, NGOs with political agendas, and destabilizing movements.
> At best, maybe 10% of the money reaches real projects that help people in need (there are such cases), but the rest is used to fuel dissent, finance protests, and undermine administrations that refuse to align with the globalist agenda.
> Cutting this so-called aid isn’t just beneficial for the United States; it’s also a big win for the rest of the world.
Their funding has been hard for Congress to vet, and it seems like they do some shady things. Kudos to Elon and his team for cutting us more than $1b/day so far!
by TrackerFF on 2/2/25, 7:55 PM
Maybe they're too deep in the Yarvin / Thield / Musk (Kool-Aid) sauce, but they should know better. This stuff will follow them for life.
by ck2 on 2/2/25, 8:09 PM
He cannot enter certain facilities or meetings at SpaceX because of that.
Yet now he is bypassing that requirement.
None of these people are elected or confirmed by the Senate and they are doing extremely sensitive things to the government
That's not how any of this is supposed to work by law.
by jimmydoe on 2/4/25, 5:58 AM
There are quite some admiration for CCP from the american new right like moldbug and musk, It seems either they took a page from CCP, or happen to think alike.
by medler on 2/2/25, 7:22 PM
Edit: by the way, this post isn’t off-topic. It is about the activities of the US Digital Service (now known as Doge), and the exploits of young hackers who came up through top tech companies. It has implications for information systems security, especially as it relates to Silicon Valley culture.
by BXLE_1-1-BitIs1 on 2/4/25, 6:47 PM
by justonenote on 2/4/25, 9:24 PM
Regardless of where you stand, I think a lot of people who have been commenting on here about blacklisting or worse about the named individuals need to check themselves, these are young men who have lives and families.
by jondwillis on 2/4/25, 5:45 AM
by boplicity on 2/3/25, 11:51 PM
by mythrwy on 2/3/25, 9:46 PM
I think they are perfect for tracing down what has been going on and finding where inefficiencies and/or corruption has been occurring. Anyone who has issue with rooting out corruption and inefficiency isn't in the right.
Of course what is done with what they find will not be in their hands.
by zombiwoof on 2/3/25, 10:52 PM
by eutropia on 2/3/25, 8:46 PM
I hope people condemning the former also condemn the latter.
by tjpnz on 2/4/25, 9:51 AM
by iamleppert on 2/3/25, 9:21 PM
by justonenote on 2/4/25, 10:09 PM
It's insane to me that the so called left are going to bat to defend the status quo, when the status quo is multi-national corporations lobbying gov for their own goals of super globalist trade. Isn't "buy local" a left position? Obviously trump is a flawed character, even the most ardent supporters will admit that. But he is not a cookie cutter straight of the factory line politician.
The same goes for Elon, he is an idiot a lot of time, but he is not a lobbyist just sitting in the shadows, he is public about being an idiot for better and worse.
These are all left wing ideas, f the corruption, that's what doge is supposed to be doing, it supposed to be cutting out inefficient spending, which lets be honest, will go to friends of friends, but the left are losing their shit because they got their funding for dressing up as the opposite sex cut off.
by Whatarethese on 2/3/25, 6:34 AM
by billiam on 2/3/25, 8:31 PM
by 1vuio0pswjnm7 on 2/4/25, 4:24 AM
"They have apparently installed sofa beds in the office of the OPM."
"Government employeees in various agencies report that staffers from DOGE are turning up at this offices, plugging in servers and running "code reviews"."
"What the DOGE people seem most keen on is access to personnel records and as much information as possible about what employees actually do. According to one civil servant interviewed by DOGE personnel, the questions include, "Which of your colleagues are most expendable?""
Sounds like a scene from Office Space.
by readthenotes1 on 2/3/25, 7:57 PM
by Arubis on 2/3/25, 10:12 PM
by breadwinner on 2/2/25, 10:51 PM
... and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Checks and balances have been neutralized.
by th0ma5 on 2/4/25, 5:05 PM
by littlestymaar on 2/3/25, 8:12 PM
by shipscode on 2/4/25, 5:40 AM
Suddenly the left is all concerned about doxxing or unelected bureaucrats in government.
Truthfully politics in America is not about any moral compass - it’s about individual preference to see certain political ideas win or lose.
Instead of pretending politics is based on a set of moral issues, just accept that it’s a set of opinions. Some simply like certain causes, people, or businesses more than others do.
by witnesser2 on 2/4/25, 12:07 AM
by megous on 2/4/25, 2:56 AM
by ayakang31415 on 2/4/25, 5:44 AM
by adamredwoods on 2/3/25, 8:58 PM
>> “We really have very little eyes on what's going on. Congress has no ability to really intervene and monitor what's happening because these aren't really accountable public officials. So this feels like a hostile takeover of the machinery of governments by the richest man in the world.”
by patrulek on 2/5/25, 8:39 AM
by SubiculumCode on 2/3/25, 9:39 PM
by ryg465wert on 2/5/25, 6:02 AM
by fsckboy on 2/4/25, 5:29 AM
by whalesalad on 2/3/25, 9:26 PM
just imagine how insecure and fucked up their solutions will be? waiting for the S3 bucket that has global read permissions on a literal "select * from usa_citizens" dump of data.
by xezzed on 2/4/25, 11:00 AM
by xivzgrev on 2/3/25, 7:53 PM
it's only when you get older that you see how rife this is for abuse. as a simple example, if DOGE knows influential Treasury recipients, then they could find ways to extort them. help us and you'll get your money on time. oppose us, and...
heck, I'm a treasury recipient (albeit a very small one), so if I take to X and start criticizing Trump or Musk, is my money at risk? Maybe not today but maybe within his term. Scary times.
by qwertox on 2/4/25, 7:57 AM
by jayshah5696 on 2/4/25, 12:18 AM
by msikora on 2/3/25, 10:07 PM
JFC, I was a complete dumbass in my 20s.
by hoseja on 2/4/25, 8:01 AM
by daxfohl on 2/3/25, 11:29 PM
by Jiro on 2/4/25, 3:02 PM
by zfg on 2/4/25, 10:02 AM
by babycheetahbite on 2/4/25, 4:12 PM
by strangeloops85 on 2/3/25, 7:59 PM
If they are accessing TS/SCI information and places like SCIFs have they filled out their SF-86? Are any of them dual nationals and do they have any ties or vulnerabilities to hostile foreign states?
Basic questions given the enormous access they are being given, far beyond frankly any handful of people have generally had in US government history.
Also, they have apparently plugged in their own private server at OPM. Has this already been compromised by Chinese/ Russian agents? Has the NSA had a look?
by adamrezich on 2/4/25, 12:37 AM
by etchalon on 2/4/25, 2:47 AM
by jimkleiber on 2/4/25, 6:49 AM
by alluro2 on 2/7/25, 11:41 PM
The guy has been impeached twice, exposing it as laughable, which it is. He has then been convicted as a felon, which hasn't slowed him down a bit in becoming a president again. He has then installed people of ridiculous backgrounds as some of the highest ranking officials in the country. He has then let Elon run amock within the government, accessing confidential data and doing things with absolutely no scrutiny or oversight. He has then already started nibbling at FBI, CIA and dozen other government agencies. It's been THREE. WEEKS.
I'm just not sure what mechanisms, checks and balances, and measures some people expect will be employed or will have any effect to control this. The government as was known up till now is no more. As long as people STILL try to frame Trump within traditional accountability mechanisms of the government, they will be floundering around the scandal or crime no. 3232, while he's committing no. 12768.
Once this slows down, there will be maybe 5% of tools and power left to revert things (and it would take decades), control the rich to any extent, and have any semblance of democracy, if they even bother to maintain it.
by fullshark on 2/4/25, 1:04 AM
by varsketiz on 2/3/25, 9:58 PM
by UltraSane on 2/4/25, 1:58 AM
by pessimizer on 2/3/25, 11:31 PM
Really, all this article says is that if you are an auditor for the commission appointed by the president, we will make sure that this comes up in an aggressively negative way when somebody who you want to work for googles you. It's pure intimidation, masquerading as journalism. It's somehow worse than Bill Ackman hiring trucks with the names of college students protesting a genocide being blasted as antisemites. At least Bill Ackman isn't pretending to be a journalist.
edit: every single article by this "disinformation expert" has been an anti-Trump or anti-Musk article. She has no other beat.
by malthaus on 2/4/25, 7:39 AM
by kragen on 2/4/25, 4:23 AM
> On Sunday, CNN reported that DOGE personnel attempted to improperly access classified information and security systems at the US Agency for International Development (USAID), and that top USAID security officials who thwarted the attempt were subsequently put on leave. The AP reported that DOGE personnel had indeed accessed classified material.
It's attracted a lot of attention that killing USAID has been such a high priority for these guys despite only being 1% of the budget and having a seemingly innocent humanitarian mission. But what's USAID doing that involves classified data? Distributing humanitarian aid shouldn't require any information whose disclosure would seriously disclose national security, should it? Presumably this means USAID has been used as cover for covert operations around the globe.
Paranoid conspiracy theory? Maybe, but it's also a well-known fact; see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Agency_for_Int...:
> William Blum has said that in the 1960s and early 1970s USAID has maintained "a close working relationship with the CIA, and Agency officers often operated abroad under USAID cover. (...) From 2010 to 2012, the agency operated ZunZuneo,[199] a social media site similar to Twitter in an attempt to instigate uprisings against the Cuban government. Its involvement was concealed in order to ensure mission success. The plan was to draw in users with non-controversial content until a critical mass is reached, after which more political messaging would be introduced. At its peak, more than 40,000 unsuspecting Cubans interacted on the platform.[199]
(There's a lot more there. Check it out if you haven't heard of this.)
So, if it's been a key part of the US's overseas covert operations for decades, why did it go into the wood chipper in a weekend? Did Elon Musk just fail to realize its importance to the US's worldwide influence?
With no evidence beyond the above, I think USAID was targeted because it's been a nucleus of the Intelligence Community's resistance to Trump consolidating his power.
by tyrrvk on 2/3/25, 7:52 PM
by jonnycomputer on 2/3/25, 2:39 AM
by HumblyTossed on 2/3/25, 8:40 PM
There's no two ways about it.
Sigh...
by nico on 2/2/25, 7:28 PM
by twochillin on 2/2/25, 10:19 PM
by twen_ty on 2/3/25, 9:37 AM
by affinepplan on 2/3/25, 9:06 PM
I was stunned. Everyone was, I know that. It was hard to believe. The entire government, just like that. How did they get in, how did it happen?
That was when they suspended the Constitution. They said it would be temporary. There wasn’t even any rioting in the streets. People stayed home at night, watching television, looking for some direction. There wasn’t even an enemy you could put your finger on…”
- The Handmaid's Tale
by 6stringmerc on 2/2/25, 7:25 PM
Is this a technology equivalent to burning the libraries of old? Once the data is gone, come on, do you think any reasonable efforts will be made to restore it? Frankly speaking, is the course DOGE taking a mandate by the people to be enacted by representatives in the government or is it vice-versa, that "we are changing your society whether you like it or not" is the fundamental principle.
Then again, I just got out of jail after a year on a made-up Terroristic Threat charge politically motivated, so my perspective is likely skewed regarding motives and actions of those who have unchecked power at their disposal.
by mynameyeff on 2/3/25, 10:48 PM
by emagdnim2100 on 2/3/25, 8:38 PM
yes, existing government systems are insanely complex - that’s part of the problem! the essential complexity is not higher than that of a brain-computer interface, or an interplanetary rocket.
we don’t even know what these kids’ mandate is (also disappointing). but if your general premise is “smart outsiders who are good at engineering are always the wrong people to rework complex, inefficient systems,” i’d like to think you’re on the wrong site.
by lif on 2/3/25, 8:14 PM
by jazz9k on 2/3/25, 10:58 PM
by rayiner on 2/4/25, 10:50 AM
by gunian on 2/4/25, 12:51 AM
by pinoy420 on 2/4/25, 7:17 AM
by jaimex2 on 2/4/25, 9:01 AM
I'll then leave a comment here about a guy that knew a guy that heard from another guy that Elon almost ruined a company his aunt worked at.
by tonymet on 2/3/25, 10:19 PM
People under 55 should be happy about this situation.
by gradus_ad on 2/3/25, 10:52 PM
by cod1r on 2/4/25, 6:18 AM
I think there are huge benefits when you put together a team of people that usually don't have distractions like kids, intimate relationships, health problems etc that can hinder productivity.
Even more beneficial to a team when you combine the wisdom and experience of older folks with the passion and energy of the youth.
by arionhardison on 2/3/25, 11:04 PM