by dlisboa on 12/28/24, 12:51 AM
Coming from a Latin American the idea of re-starting your life across the country for college and then again for work (multiple times sometimes) while away from family and friends is very foreign.
A lot of the conversation around modern American youth feeling isolated, lacking socialization and not building strong relationships seems that stem from this drive.
Another thing that’s really weird and related is another recurring theme in the American ethos: the cultural shame that comes with living “at home” or staying in the same small town for your whole life. Somehow they made it so living close to your family and friends for your 20s-30s and maybe forever means you’re a “loser”.
by extr on 12/28/24, 12:08 AM
I go back and forth on this. I still keep in touch with a bunch of high school and college friends. For better or worse those guys know "the real me" and the history and relationships are impossible to replace. They all still live close together but I live far away - I only see them once or twice a year, if that (less right now because we're all in the "very young kids" stage). I miss them.
On the other hand, when I spend more than a few days straight with them, I realize that despite how deep our history goes, we've all changed. We don't share as many of the same hobbies/interests. My wife doesn't share a strong connection with them in the same way I do and doesn't have anything at all in common with their wives. I get it. Moving closer to them for the sake of my relationships would be a huge sacrifice for her.
What's to be done?
by almostvindiesel on 12/28/24, 12:30 AM
100% this. Started out with two families buying houses near each other in a family centric LA neighborhood (Eagle Rock). Then it expanded to 3 --> 4 --> 5 all within walking distance. We all have similar aged children. It's magic. We watch each others kids, do frequent backyard/park/sleepover playdates, and help w dropoff/pickup. It makes parenting SO MUCH EASIER. I often joke that I'm not a real parent bc we have so much help. Living closer meant compromising on other decisions (ideal house/commute/etc), but proximity to friends has more than outweighed the cons. One family was living near the beach and loved it, but decided it was more impt to live near us then right on the coast.
We opt in and out as much as we'd like. It's beautiful having options, mostly for our kids, who are really thriving by having easy access to playmates. So much better than having to "blind date" other couples and their kids from daycare/activities/etc.
The hardest part is starting. It doesn't have to be a huge commune initiative. Pick one friend who has a similar lifestyle and settle down in a neighborhood withing walking distance and take it from there. Think most important time to do it is when you become a new parent, when your kids and you will want companionship but won't have the time (nor energy) to build new relationships.
by paxys on 12/27/24, 11:14 PM
Weird that the article frames friends as being constant in life and your career/house/neighborhood/kids' schools/community as totally flexible when practically speaking it's the other way around. It is normal to move away from people you formed bonds with in high school and college. If you are lonely the solution isn't to uproot your life and go after them, but to form new bonds with people who are around you right now. The end result is the same – you get to live near friends.
by brailsafe on 12/27/24, 10:33 PM
Less of us should be discounting the value of investing in new, long-term friendships, in the second or third place we live, and stop discounting the impact of arbitrarily moving away for cheaper or more isolated pastures just because we work remotely. There's a threshold past which it's worth considering how much is worth it to remain, but for many it seems like a no-brainer financial consideration, and they don't really seem to have tried to integrate within their neighborhood, perhaps because they knew they'd eventually be forced out by the landed gentry. I'd personally never move back to my home city, I'm happy in the metropolis I moved to, but have put in a hell of a lot time and energy into forming a strong social circle and be present in my community, and I probably wouldn't throw that away just to own a house somewhere in the boonies, but I also wouldn't spend millions to get a 2 bedroom condo, so it's an awkward place to be in one's thirties.
by wenc on 12/27/24, 10:44 PM
I would love to, but I come from a place where intellectual pursuits are not valued, so I would lose out on that front if I moved back. I’m the type who needs to always be learning. So I would always need to be in a big city.
Alain Bertaud, the urbanist, recently said, “the big contribution of cities is randomness.” And he continues: “You don't know what to expect. You don't know who you will meet. And, it's precisely because you meet people who are different from you, who have different ideas. Sometime even it could be obnoxious people. I think obnoxious people — I mean, what I consider obnoxious — are necessary in order to stimulate.”
In North America, there is a very strong cultural preference to isolate oneself (probably a residual effect of the frontier spirit). Hence a strong preference for suburban single family homes with backyards (“for the kids and the dog”) and which results in spread out developments where people rarely have to interact. That’s fine — but realize that’s a cultural preference.
I grew up in a house with no backyard and had an idyllic childhood. I knew my neighbors and biked to the playground. I was as happy as a clam. To this day, I don’t feel any need to own a house with a backyard. That is also a cultural preference.
by model-15-DAV on 12/28/24, 12:32 AM
This is certainly a reaction to economic strangulation of a huge percentage of people in the economy. Of course, if people want to be near each other they should, but this phenomenon is a direct result of the crumbling conditions for the working class. The resurrection of third-spaces is a much better alternative than the erosion of first-spaces.
Our civil society organizations have eroded to the point that the private market has completely ended the concept of the third space. Places where community can be formed are gone; commoditized and politicized and so are not places where community can develop. Instead of the use of third-spaces we are forced to depend on our friends economically like this.
This seems like a good thing, "people are coming together, yay!" but being forced to live like this is not going to have good outcomes. These people have real issues described in the article, they need better child-care, they need closer personal roots, they need economic security. But we forcing people to make these contracts of great economic dependency, we should be more prepared to allow people to live more independently. I see this move as kin to the economic migration from the Global South today to countries like Sweden, Germany, etc. which has been causing great strife internally to those countries.
by lordnacho on 12/28/24, 12:12 AM
My childhood friend did this with his buddies. In our 20s they bought a big house in the suburbs and each had a room. They lived in that for a few years, and then when people started sprouting kids, some of them moved into the same building that was run as a coop. Eventually a lot of them were living in this coop.
So now when I go back to see him there's all these people there that I've known since forever, living in the same building. It's oddly comforting. They've struck the just-right balance between being too close and too far apart. They see each other regularly but there isn't a gathering every day.
by flocciput on 12/28/24, 5:05 AM
Of course the LiveNearFriends website is only for people in the fucking Bay Area and lists houses that are millions of dollars.
I would love to live near friends. I've been trying to find a place cheap enough and close enough to an area with plentiful jobs. But my friends are not all software engineers, and most are far from making that kind of money (or being able to work from home anywhere in the country). It's so fucking hard. And such a slap in the face to see a site that should make it easier, actually only intended to help people for whom that goal is already in reach.
by renewiltord on 12/27/24, 11:20 PM
My friends and I live near each other. It's a quick 10 min walk to their place and we have keys to each others' places. We've slowly lobbied more people to move nearer and life is getting better with each additional participant. I'm a firm believer in optimizing for our relationships.
That said, we did that because it seemed to us to be the obvious right thing, and it seemed that our parents benefited from doing this. If the only input I had was some super rich guy saying "Don't do what I did, man. Wealth isn't worth it. I wish I had friends" I would conclude that it's bogus.
by phendrenad2 on 12/27/24, 10:40 PM
Great idea - to make this happen we either need to solve the housing affordability crisis in high-density areas, or spread job opportunities around to lower-density areas.
My friends are in a diverse set of fields, finding a place with jobs for all of them isn't feasible right now.
by iambateman on 12/28/24, 12:22 AM
There is a movement called Cohousing that I don’t think gets enough attention.
I prefer to call it Tiny Neighborhoods, which is basically what the article describes.
If interested, I did a 3,000 word deep dive into the specifics of how tiny neighborhoods have worked over the past 50 years…
https://iambateman.com/tiny
by lukan on 12/27/24, 10:37 PM
Yes of course. Intentional communities of like minded people are the alternative to atomarisation of strangers living next to strangers with fake smiles and talking behind the back as the standard social interaction.
Easier said then done, though in most cases, but worth it wherever possible.
by subarctic on 12/28/24, 1:42 AM
Absolutely you should live somewhere where you have friends nearby. Or better yet live somewhere you can make friends who are nearby. Big cities are the best when you're young and single because there's just so many more opportunities to meet new people that you can make friends with or date. I think the article talks about being with your childhood friends, and maybe that's good for some people but people who make good friends when their 10 won't necessarily be a good fit for each other when they're 25 and that's ok.
by bnlxbnlx on 12/28/24, 8:57 AM
I'm living with my partner and her brother and family and another family who are friends of ours in a house (which has three apartments). We moved there to live together (and continued to work remotely or found work elsewhere). Six adults, six children. It's an absolute treat. I can't imagine going back to a nuclear family setup. Living in a larger web with more support from all sides (both for adults and children) is just amazing.
And of course it's often not possible or easy to do this.
by vouaobrasil on 12/27/24, 11:08 PM
If I moved near where most of my friends live, it would cost probably an extra 300K in a housing costs and working much longer hours at a job I'd surely hate. I'd rather use the money to visit them once in a while and make even more friends where I live.
by nntwozz on 12/28/24, 2:41 AM
“Understand that friends come and go, but for the precious few you should hold on.
Work hard to bridge the gaps in geography and lifestyle because the older you get, the more you need the people you knew when you were young.”
— Baz Luhrmann from Everybody's Free (To Wear Sunscreen)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTJ7AzBIJoI
I haven't found the above advice to be true, I'm 40 now.
I moved off grid after living in a city for 20 years.
I don't have a lot of friends but I'm happy, my nearest neighbor is 5km away.
I enjoy the dark nights, the silence and the solitude.
I think friends are a really arbitrary thing to plan your life around.
Friends can also be a burden, more isn't just better; shoutout to social media.
"If you are lonely when you're alone, you are in bad company."
— Jean-Paul Sartre
Words to live by.
by whitehexagon on 12/28/24, 9:43 AM
Having contracted around Europe for 20 years, my friends are scattered. There are many of those places I'd be happy to settle down in, but my upcoming move is based primarily on the changing climate. The area I am living in now is already changing, and the climate change models dont bode well for this area. Anyway, the contractor lifestyle has taught me there are new friends waiting to be found wherever I live, even if my next new friend is the 200 year old oak tree next to a stream deep in the forest.
by julianeon on 12/27/24, 11:21 PM
More of us should be prioritizing making friends, probably: if you pull it off, you've achieved a similar effect at much lower cost. If you're the type of person who's organized and capable enough to organize a communal living space with your friends, you're logically also able to find friendships in your area, much more so than the average person is.
by JustExAWS on 12/28/24, 7:39 PM
It doesn’t matter when I lived near friends and family.
At our ages 40-60, we all have our own immediate families, obligations (kids, grandkids and/or aging parents), we still have to make an effort to get together and we probably wouldn’t get together any more than we do now.
I am 50 married with adult (step)kids and my wife and I are empty nesters. We recently moved from where I lived after graduating from college in 1996 and my wife has lived all of her adult life.
My core group of 5 friends I’ve put together from jobs I’ve had when living there are all married some with adult kids and others with kids still at home. It took a lot of planning and juggling calendars just for us to get together even once per quarter when I lived there.
They all still live there and we have a group chat. But it is still less than once per quarter that we can all get together. It’s a short cheap flight for me to fly in to hang out with them.
There are two other couples that my wife and I are friends with and we all live in different cities now. Similar scenario, they both have family obligations - parents, adult kids, grandkids, etc which make it hard for all six of us to get together. But we usually have planned a trip together at least once a year and we end up in each others city for something at least once a year - Atlanta, Orlando and Los Angeles.
My third group of “friends” are my seven cousins I grew up with (I’m an only child). They are all female and also have aging parents (who are less healthy than mine), children, grand children, etc.
They all live in my former hometown and I’m also in a group chat with them. They say they often only see each other when I come to town and get us all together.
It’s the same with my college crew - we all went to college in our hone town and they either still live there or have family there. We can barely get together for alumni college events
by neverartful on 12/28/24, 12:36 AM
This post is coming to me at an odd time regarding friends. On the one hand, I've rekindled some friendships with friends from high school and I'm so happy to be reconnected with them. I wish I could see them more often and spend time with them. On the other hand, I also just recently blocked the calls and emails from a long time friend. It wasn't a decision that I made lightly. Without getting into too much detail, our fairly frequent phone calls had become toxic with us arguing about politics and him lecturing me about various things (and perhaps me lecturing him too about various things).
I was recently thinking how much I would like to be closer (geographically) with my high school friends (despite the changes that we've had over the years). But in the case of my friend whose phone number I recently blocked, I'm so happy that I don't live so close that he could drop by.
by lelandbatey on 12/27/24, 10:50 PM
I did, yes it is nice, I don't know if it's even possible for most folks. The only way to get a house in my case was to buy it with family and split it (in our case it was one big old house that'd been converted to a duplex nearly a century ago, so while it's one building it's well set up for two families to live separately).
The benefits they talk about are real, but I don't know how realistic this is as a recommendation. I suspect few folks will find themselves not only able to buy housing (or a portion of housing), but also able to do so with folks whom they trust enough to make such a big commitment.
I'm curious what other folks think about such situations and recommendations though. Is it a realistic recommendation?
by nine_k on 12/28/24, 7:46 AM
My friends are all over the map.
And I don't just mean Austin, Chicago, or San Diego, which are all pretty far away from NYC where I live. I mean places like London, Munich, Zurich, Tampere (Finland), or Tel Aviv. While I enjoyed it when my plane was landing in many of these places, I also enjoyed it when it was taking me back home. (Maybe except London, but, to my mind, London is harsher than NYC if you want to actually afford living there.)
So the closest I can live to my friends is online. Show up for a chat, talk, cheer up, support each other, and the bonds of friendship will remain, despite geography. Live next block and forget to say hello week after week, because the days are busy, and the bond will fray.
by yowayb on 12/28/24, 3:01 AM
I've been to a handful of trailer parks with wonderful communities, and a lot of the people are not poor, just saving money, and stumbling upon community!
I'm also a nomad and have found that, with a little extra effort on my part (it helps that I'm extroverted and skilled with productivity apps), I can easily see many friends all over the world.
Also there was a study that found the reason some old folks lived super long in Italian towns is because of community.
by harimau777 on 12/28/24, 2:41 PM
I'm currently in the process of moving away from friends. It's definitely not something I want to do, but I don't have much of a choice due to the lack of tech jobs in the area, the increasingly oppressive culture & laws of a deep red state, and the lack of amenities.
I suspect that the focus should be on making it easier for people to choose to live near friends. Not sure how that would work though.
by veunes on 12/28/24, 7:50 AM
It was very hard for me to make friends. Even now, I only have two. When I didn’t have a family of my own, I was heavily dependent on my friends. Such "friendships" often didn’t end well for me. That’s why, at some point, I started striving to ensure that my mental health didn’t depend on my "social connections" (I’m not sure, maybe I misunderstood something in the article).
by LightBug1 on 12/28/24, 10:30 AM
This feels weird af to me ... there's a place for highschool friends and I cherish and miss some of them. But there's also a place for striving forward into a world and meeting and learning with new people.
Personally, family and the closest of close (family) friends are the constant. Beyond that, it feels like retreat into mundanity ... like Facebook.
by yellowapple on 12/29/24, 3:02 AM
I have a few friends (and family members thereof) within relatively close proximity (either walkable or a <5 minute drive), and it's indeed been pretty handy. A couple of us have even talked about someday together investing in someplace we can all live (be it a multiplex, some chunk of land with a few double-wides, or - only half-seriously - one of the mansions that periodically hit Zillow in our city), much like what's described in the article.
The big issue is that friendships ain't permanent, and navigating the financial and legal implications of jointly owning real estate entails a need for quite a bit of permanence. I and the friends in question believe we trust each other enough to make it work (should we ever all be sufficiently financially secure to pull the trigger on that plan), but it's hard to be sure.
by fuzztester on 12/28/24, 3:27 AM
by fsckboy on 12/28/24, 4:27 AM
our society(s) have conducted two (three?) experiments at once, and it's not easy to separate the confounding factors. We spend less time with our relatives. We have drastically smaller families/fewer relatives. We move great distances and go out of touch with not only our families, but also our former friends.
We also more drastically sort ourselves than before by some notions of class like "what you majored in" at "what tier of institution" and "stayed in academia" or "went into industry" etc.
moving to live near friends is probably helpful but not a panacea; nor are we going to do it so...
by tina_pen on 12/28/24, 5:47 AM
Oh! It's so nice to read something you've thought about your whole life. I have an uncle, now in his late 60s. He and his friends have been living in the same society since kindergarten. They meet almost every day, go on trips, and party at the drop of a hat, always there when they need each other. I've been jealous of that for such a long time. My friends and I, in the pursuit of money, fame, and who knows what, are now spread across continents. We probably speak once or twice a day. Recent friendships haven't stood the test of time.
by more_corn on 12/28/24, 3:07 AM
Maybe make friends where you are? There’s a formula. Find people who share interests, spend time with them. meet their friends, expand your interests, be open. Be friendly, help, ask for help.
by silexia on 12/28/24, 3:54 PM
We can't move anywhere because we can't afford to. When 500,000 H1-B visas are brought into the USA to do entry level accounting and programming jobs, we have far less negotiating leverage to work remotely or make higher pay. Supply and demand. Your employer wants to increase the labor supply to reduce your price (your salary) and options like working where you wish.
by sebbu on 12/29/24, 1:01 PM
For me it's mostly a money issue. Then I'ld lose contact with my family and friends, so I'ld have nobody guaranteed to help if i have issues. Also, moving (far) requires a lot of money, then finding a new job, maybe even a better one than you had since the cost of living might be higher in the new place.
by hyperific on 12/28/24, 4:53 PM
Should writers stop using the question format in titles when the answer to the question is immediately apparent?
by jemmyw on 12/28/24, 4:30 AM
No, because they bugger off somewhere else shortly after for new opportunities or changed life circumstances[1][2] Probably better to make friends where you live.
[1] Said by someone with some bitterness about this.
[2] Who is also guilty of doing the same.
by stuckkeys on 12/28/24, 7:41 AM
Absolutely. It really has a positive effect on your mood. When you have someone close to you, you always hang out and it makes it worth everything. Share struggles, share ideas, feedback. It is really a great feeling.
by bitzun on 12/28/24, 6:47 AM
I live very close to a couple dozen of my favourite people. I’d like to move out of the shithole state I live in, and began seriously planning it until I realised that it would never be worth trading the proximity.
by w10-1 on 12/27/24, 10:52 PM
Or, in California, buy a single-family urban home and subdivide it under SB-9.
by adamtaylor_13 on 12/29/24, 2:43 AM
Doesn’t this weird question presuppose that you live somewhere with literally no friends?
In what situation would you live somewhere long-term with no friends whatsoever?
by ryukoposting on 12/28/24, 4:36 AM
I think it's worth emphasizing that "living near friends" doesn't require "living in a big city." By moving from Chicago to Milwaukee, I
grew my friend group, found
more social opportunities, and those social opportunities are less of an economic burden. Still a city, but considerably smaller. Big cities can offer great things, but only if you can afford to live in certain neighborhoods. Smaller cities offer many of the same opportunities but with lower financial barrier to entry, and less physical distance between you and the most lively areas.
Alternavely, you have to be willing to spend a lot of time in those neighborhoods, then go back to your home for the night. But, of course, the atrocious public transit system in most American cities means this is a pipe dream for me.
by hackable_sand on 12/28/24, 6:26 AM
Fiefdoms. Got it.
by swozey on 12/28/24, 12:50 AM
Paywalled but from the comments here it sounds like this is moving near your HS friends? Absolutely not. Nothing in common with them.
If this is more about living in a more dense area where you have friends closeby, absolutely. I live in a very dense area and I have friends all over the neighborhood. Some across the street, some down the road. We can meet up and see a show or do friendsgiving or whatever or just grab a beer.
It's not cheap and I don't live in a big place but I am astronomically happier here than I was when I owned a house in the suburbs 2016-2019 and had to drive 25 minutes minimum to meet up with people.
by pshc on 12/28/24, 1:41 AM
by germandiago on 12/28/24, 2:38 AM
21st century, where we discuss moving with friends and loneliness and do not mention family relatives...
by magic_smoke_ee on 12/27/24, 11:56 PM
It might boost propinquity.
Does anyone here have shared or neighboring vacation homes or SHTF homesteads with friends?
by greenie_beans on 12/28/24, 1:59 PM
we moved across the country where we don't know anybody. i do not recommend this. having friends nearby is such an important aspect of mental health and overall joy in life.
by _DeadFred_ on 12/28/24, 1:35 AM
Wish I could, but the high cost of living in my home town of Santa Cruz drove me and all my friends away. Then when I went back, home was no longer home.
by droobles on 12/28/24, 3:42 AM
My friends and I joke about moving back to our home town to be together, possibly on the same block, mostly because of how cheap it would be. Truth is I have a lot of childhood and frankly recent trauma there and would never want to move back. Thankfully over time we’ve all seemed to be coincidentally landing in the same metro area over the years so we see each other a lot and it’s been a great way to bounce back from COVID.
by elAhmo on 12/28/24, 8:46 PM
This is such a great text!
In my home city, many houses around are my family and childhood friends, and I wish I could replicate that with my other friends too. If I ever become a billionaire and can buy a small village and make everyone move there, it would be a dream coming true!
by Ozzie_osman on 12/28/24, 6:06 AM
My wife and I moved with our kids back to the country we grew up in in large part because of this. For us it wasn't just being closer to extended family, though that was a part of it. We just realized Western culture (we lived in Silicon Valley, which was probably the extreme of that) was very individualistic (or nuclear-family-focused), and people's lives aren't as intertwined as in other parts of the world. As an introvert, that was actually fine for some time, but once we had kids, we felt like it just wasn't a healthy way for our family to live and we were missing something pretty meaningful.
by shirajg on 12/28/24, 5:53 AM
Yes. Friends make life way better!
by kyawzazaw on 12/28/24, 2:24 AM
by atlgator on 12/28/24, 7:52 AM
I wish I had.
by squirrel6 on 12/29/24, 2:27 AM
No
by yapyap on 12/28/24, 7:05 PM
just based off the title: yeah sure, or make new friends?
by kidneystereotyp on 12/27/24, 10:54 PM
rich people problems
by declan_roberts on 12/27/24, 11:14 PM
This is great advice if you replace "friends" with "family"