from Hacker News

Mozilla: Proposals in US vs. Google threaten vital role of independent browsers

by botanical on 12/19/24, 1:53 PM with 92 comments

by jqpabc123 on 12/19/24, 2:12 PM
Is Mozilla independent?
The undisputed reality is that Mozilla is almost wholly funded by the dominant (i.e. monopoly) search provider.
This blog post as well as basic Firefox design decisions (compromised privacy by default) are fully conducive and reflective of this reality.
In other words, this opinion was bought and paid for by Google.
by bobajeff on 12/19/24, 3:23 PM
>Proposals in US vs. Google threaten vital role of independent browsers
That's a creative way to put it considering there is only one independent browser (singular) that's being harmed by this. A more straightforward title world be `Proposals in US vs. Google threaten the only viable independent browser maker left`
by jimjimwii on 12/19/24, 3:36 PM
Sadly Mozilla is like a large dead tree husk, full of parasites, that deprives healthy tree saplings from sunlight. I know its harsh, but I say knock it down. Much better for the browser market.
by erellsworth on 12/19/24, 3:03 PM
> We urge the court to consider remedies that achieve its goals without harming independent browsers, browser engines and ultimately without harming the web.
Such as? I have no idea what the solution to this issue is and, it seems, neither does Mozilla.
by qzw on 12/19/24, 3:39 PM
> As written, the proposed remedies will force smaller and independent browsers like Firefox to fundamentally reexamine their entire operating model.
I think a lot of us Firefox users would see that as a good thing, or at least no worse than the status quo. Firefox is now a small slice of the market, and it seems Mozilla has lost the will to ever truly challenge Chrome again. Maybe removing the easy Google money would be, shall we say, motivating.
by everfrustrated on 12/19/24, 4:05 PM
It's an absolute scandal that Mozilla gets HALF A BILLION $ PER YEAR from Google and Firefox isn't even technically or by market share the greatest browser in the market.
How is it that despite this tremendous funding, no other company is using the gecko engine? How did Microsoft end up using Google's engine over Mozilla's?
Mitchell Baker has a lot to answer for. She is single-handedly responsible for pillaging this opportunity. How she has lasted as the CEO for so long is criminal.
by 1vuio0pswjnm7 on 12/19/24, 7:05 PM
"For the past seven years, Google search has been the default in Firefox in the US because it provides the best search experience for our users."
And the fact that Mozilla is under agreement with Google to send search data to the company in return for hundreds of millions in revenue, without which Mozilla would allegedly cease to exist, is a fortuitous coincidence.
We could could modify this statement to be more truthful as follows:
For the past seven years, Google search has been the default in Firefox in the US in part because Mozilla believes it provides the best search experience for our users.
As a longtime user since the Netscape Navigator days, I have yet to receive a user survey from Mozilla asking me what I believe "provides the best search experience". In fact, Mozilla never asks users what they think. Instead they attempt to spy on them through telemetry.
by djoldman on 12/19/24, 3:49 PM
> As written, the proposed remedies will force smaller and independent browsers like Firefox to fundamentally reexamine their entire operating model.
> For the past seven years, Google search has been the default in Firefox in the U.S. because it provides the best search experience for our users.
Isn't Google search the default because Google pays to be the default?
by johnorourke on 12/19/24, 3:33 PM
Article doesn't answer question... it vaguely talks about search, defaults, threats but you have to kind of infer and guess what is actually written in the judgement. I wanted to read "the judgement says xxx which means xxx will happen which causes xxx".
I have more questions after reading than before!
by jackbravo on 12/19/24, 3:33 PM
Why not mandate that each browser shows search options on first install, and then periodically ask again every... 6 months?
Google could still pay to be the top sponsored option.
Would Google still pay Mozilla in this case?
by pentagrama on 12/19/24, 6:19 PM
Doesn't the graph [1] in this article seem to be missing Safari at the start of the horizontal WebKit bar?
[1] https://blog.mozilla.org/wp-content/blogs.dir/278/files/2024...
by registeredcorn on 12/19/24, 3:26 PM
Isn't Mozilla worth half a billion dollars? Perhaps they are "independent" in the sense that they are technically a different organization than google, but usually when I hear independent it evokes images of some "plucky upstart" looking to take on some giant superstructure. I'm talking about independent movie theaters, or independent coffee companies. Things like that.
Calling Firefox an independent browser is kind of like calling Internet Explorer an "independent browser" - it very well may be a different organization, but Microsoft is hardly independent as some kind of thin, agile, and flexible upstart looking to "take on old man google".
by throwaway48476 on 12/19/24, 3:42 PM
No one has figured out how to fund browser development because of ads. The siren call was too strong and drowned out alternate funding models.
by zoezoezoezoe on 12/19/24, 3:03 PM
This is a reminder that Mozilla only exists because of google, in the Mozilla Foundation's 2021–2022 financial statement, Mozilla states to have made $593 Million, $510 Million of that came from Google. Mozilla is bitching because they dont exist without Google, and while they may claim to be independent or whatever, if the DOJ forces Google to end default search deals, Mozilla disappears.
by iteratethis on 12/19/24, 10:40 PM
A case like this demonstrates that principles are as soft as butter when they are tested.
Mozilla is all preachy about privacy but is in bed with the greatest private data hoarder in the world. They take the blood money and continue to enable the monopoly status quo.
Mozilla is in favor of more competition to combat Big Tech, but as soon as an actual measure is taken that does that but has negative second order effects for themselves, it's...wait, not like that.
Mozilla is looking out for all types of marginalized folks if you have to believe their activist blogs but in reality spent huge sums on leadership that failed to achieve any target at all for a decade in a row.
Mozilla is the definition of woke capitalism. Hypocritical to the bone.
This is an organization that ordinarily cannot exist. It is showered with money for doing nothing at all: just keep the search box pointed at Google. Half a billion to piss away at hobbies. There is zero accountability to any one or any thing.
The only true principle Mozilla has is that it likes to continue this toddler organization. Free money, no accountability. All the do-good talk is a cover for this.