Hi,
I made this page to contextualize 13 billion euros (or 14): an amount due to Ireland in an EU Apple tax case and all over the airwaves here this week. I use some pretty silly back-of-the-envelope type calculations (the same ones also repeated a lot in Ireland this week!).
These calculations aren't especially interesting, but at least they are present: you can see them, and you can change them. If you do - change the 13 billion to 14 billion for example, related numbers will flash with updates.
It's an example using calculang[1]: a language for calculations, and an example that focuses on a close connection between numbers that we read or share and formulas/workings behind those numbers.
I plan to do a separate Show HN about calculang perhaps when I have more docs and newer playground and gallery together, but Showing this page in case it's interesting, & happy if there is feedback!
Declan
[0] https://HowMuchIs13BillionEuros.com repo: https://github.com/declann/HowMuchIs13BillionEuros.com
[1] https://calculang.dev
by screye on 9/12/24, 12:22 AM
by pornel on 9/11/24, 10:19 PM
This shows values per person in Ireland, but AFAIK the tax is from all European income, Apple has just channelled that through Irish subsidiary.
Isle of Man is probably even richer in per capita money they've never seen.
by nottorp on 9/11/24, 10:37 PM
1 km of freeway is 10-40 million so 325-1300 km of freeway.
1 km of high speed train line is 20-60 million so 216-650 km of high speed train
Ireland's healthcare spending was 22.3 Bn in 2023, so 13 Bn covers 7 months of healthcare for the country.
I see the OP included "In € 2.24Bn National Childrens Hospitals? 5.8 National Childrens Hospitals" so they're on the right track.
We're talking about state spending here so it's pointless to compare it to the price of a tablet IMO.
by ericyd on 9/11/24, 11:51 PM
Since this seems to be a dual purpose post with the secondary goal of promoting calculang, I'll say I do not understand the value prop of calculang at all. It doesn't look like a library or language or anything, it just looks like plain javascript.
by andrewstuart on 9/11/24, 11:36 PM
by soperj on 9/11/24, 10:19 PM
If Apple got a 13 billion dollar fine every single month, it would take 22 years for it to exhaust their networth.
by cornstalks on 9/11/24, 11:07 PM
The framing is kinda confusing in some questions. For example, "In € 2,000 one-off gifts? Answer: 1.3x € 2,000 gifts for each person."
But clearly that can't be per person globally. I had to read the code to see it was specifically about Ireland. Actually, they're all about Ireland.
I know the first question mentions Ireland but it's not obvious that all the questions are also scoped to Ireland.
by weddpros on 9/12/24, 12:04 AM
It's barely enough to subsidise a war for one year...
by rsynnott on 9/11/24, 10:47 PM
by blastonico on 9/12/24, 12:10 AM
It's so big that you'll need a 64-bit variable to store that value.
by b0g0n on 9/12/24, 1:08 AM
TypeError: Cannot read properties of undefined (reading 'values')
RuntimeError: Cannot read properties of undefined (reading 'values')
Not working right for me
by fuzzythinker on 9/12/24, 1:18 AM
The fact that everything is scoped for Ireland needs to be more clear, by stating this very fact at the very top or as part of the title.
by bubblesnort on 9/12/24, 7:29 AM
A screenful of JavaScript errors? I guess that means 13B EUR is does not compute much.
by incrudible on 9/11/24, 11:25 PM
This is a curious case of bait and switch. Ireland attracts Apple through low taxes. The EU rules this is an illegal subsidy for Apple by Ireland, harming other member states. So why should Ireland be entitled to the money, but not those member states?
by bilekas on 9/11/24, 11:46 PM
It might aford a rail system connecting the major Dublin airport. I have my complaints about how Ireland spends it's money but all in all, it's less corrupt than other places I've lived in.
by NackerHughes on 9/12/24, 5:51 AM
Why are all the variables functions? They're just numbers. There's no need at all for them to be functions that just return numbers.
by daedrdev on 9/11/24, 11:35 PM
The fact that its only 25K homes is crazy
by brailsafe on 9/11/24, 11:25 PM
Ugh, the cost of that bike shed hurts. It's more money than my bike enthusiast father has ever had in net total assets (not accounting for pension, but yes accounting for house) + my entire net worth as an adult man in my thirties, and that's just a one for one number comparison without accounting for exchange. Hopefully it'll do it's job well and last forever, but it's just another reminder that whichever number I come up with to charge someone for services, it's not enough until it feels absurd, otherwise it'll get spent on some other totally asinine thing (not that a bike shelter is asinine, but the cost compared to the result does seem to be).
by langcss on 9/12/24, 9:59 AM
Wow. Bike shedding really is expensive.
by bahador on 9/11/24, 10:19 PM
by jovial_cavalier on 9/12/24, 2:47 AM
13,000 tomahawk missiles!
by m3kw9 on 9/12/24, 1:08 AM
Apple isn’t paying that
by happyopossum on 9/12/24, 12:26 AM
€ 336k for a BIKE SHED? And it’s really just a nice semi-covered bike rack (not a shed as Americans would think of it)?
Holy crap…
by tamimio on 9/12/24, 1:42 AM
by melenaboija on 9/11/24, 10:42 PM
0,001% of all billionaires net worth.
by michelangelo on 9/11/24, 10:49 PM
I’d say more than €5.
by black_13 on 9/12/24, 7:12 AM
Few of you attempt to contextualize the vast sum of 13 billion euros and others fixate on its magnitude without delving into the nuanced policy implications. This oversimplification, coupled with a lack of comprehensive understanding of EU dynamics and international tax law, leads to mischaracterizations of the situation as a "fine" rather than a ruling on back taxes. Also libertarian mindset manifests in various ways: skepticism towards government intervention and international governance, emphasis on corporate rights and freedom, and a tendency to reduce complex systems to simple narratives of overreach versus liberty. Notably absent from much of the discussion here are the wider ramifications for global tax policy, the delicate balance between attracting foreign investment and maintaining fair tax practices, and the potential impact on wealth inequality. The commentary also reveals a curious dynamic where Ireland, the supposed beneficiary, is reluctant to collect these taxes due to fears of losing foreign investment, a nuance lost on many commenters. Ultimately, while the discussion generates interesting points about the scale of corporate wealth and taxation, it often lacks the depth necessary to grapple with the complex legal, economic, and ethical issues at the heart of this case, highlighting the challenges of fostering informed public discourse on intricate matters of international finance and governance.
by kman82 on 9/11/24, 10:44 PM
What’s the point of this?
by lofaszvanitt on 9/11/24, 10:48 PM
The obsession with numbers and money, the sure sign of evil. Everyone, quick, drink holy wasser, until it's too late :D.