by dnoberon on 8/30/24, 5:03 PM
The title might be a little dramatic, but I poured my heart into this article. I had to make some drastic decisions and big changes with regards to my career trajectory - and if I can inspire others to be true to themselves, then I'll be happy.
by big-green-man on 8/30/24, 9:05 PM
It's said that people rise to the level of their incompetence. Some leaders might see this and think, this guy is dangerous and we can't have that. If I were a leader at his firm and I got that email I'd be thrilled. If everyone admit their limits and thought like this all companies would run more smoothly. He rises to the level of maximum competence, the perfect place for him, he won't be bitter about not getting the next promotion and cause trouble by leaving for seemingly greener pastures, and he will be reliable in handling his work load because he's comfortable with it. People like this are valuable assets in an organization, it's a shame that a lot of people don't see it, they look upon ladder climbing as admirable, but ambition is about taking you where you want to be, recognizing when you've achieved that is much more admirable.
by neilv on 8/30/24, 6:47 PM
>
I felt like by 40 I needed to move on from engineering because if I didn’t, I’d be like the few older workers I’d dealt with in my career. I felt like they moved too slow, were stuck in their ways, and unable to change - even when faced with evidence to the contrary.If that was your fear, then I'm sorry you had that fear, and I hope it was unfounded.
Unfortunately, there's externalities to voicing a negative stereotype in some venues, reinforcing it there.
by arp242 on 8/30/24, 9:58 PM
> I felt like by 40 I needed to move on from engineering because if I didn’t, I’d be like the few older workers I’d dealt with in my career. I felt like they moved too slow, were stuck in their ways, and unable to change - even when faced with evidence to the contrary.
There are always people who have a lot of "soft power" just on account of years on the job. This probably happens everywhere, in all types of jobs. I've also seen this in sales departments and warehouses. This is compounded by the fact that incompetency tends to chase away the competent (not even "talented", just "competent") once the incompetency reaches a critical mass.
I do feel that lack of older programmers saying "steady on there kiddo" is a problem. "Stuck in your ways"? Maybe. But there's a lot of value in both "proven to work" and "knowing the devil you're dealing with".
by ComputerGuru on 8/30/24, 6:34 PM
There are many different types of "dangerous" things you can do for your career, and some are worse (and more permanent) than others.
The most "dangerous" thing for my career was when I started posting about what's happening in Gaza and Palestine on my public social media accounts. I've heard similar horror stories from others, ranging from being let go from their jobs to missing out on new opportunities and positions, specifically or "incidentally" as a result of their decision to speak out.
by hluska on 8/30/24, 7:45 PM
I enjoyed the article and it reminded me of many experiences in my career. However, this sentence bothers me:
“I felt like by 40 I needed to move on from engineering because if I didn’t, I’d be like the few older workers I’d dealt with in my career. I felt like they moved too slow, were stuck in their ways, and unable to change - even when faced with evidence to the contrary.”
I’m in my forties and none of those things are true about me. Nor are they true about any of the other older developers I know. There isn’t this magic switch that goes off when we turn forty.
When I extrapolate from there, it makes me genuinely wonder how many of the writer’s problems stem from the position versus how many stem from a serious lack of empathy and the communication difficulties that creates.
The best management advice that I ever received was to always consider if a management problem is actually the sign of a personal problem. If it is, it’s my job to manage to fix that before I make my workplace more toxic.
by j-scott on 8/30/24, 7:07 PM
I've lurked on hacker news for a number of years, and this post is what inspired me to finally make an account. Thank you for sharing; this aligns with my current situation and reinforces my recent decision that I need to make a change.
by htrp on 8/30/24, 6:34 PM
I think this is a great article explaining exactly why it's okay to step off the career progression ladder and say this is what I want to do.
The alternative is the Peter principle where you end up promoted upwards until you fail.
OP, I wonder if you had frank talks with your line management about your long term career trajectory or if this was a sudden realization?
by slibhb on 8/30/24, 7:38 PM
The email could have been pared down significantly. The idea that a programmer might want to solve problems directly rather than manage others should be well known at this point. The company I work for has an "individual contributor" career track for this reason. You can simply say it straight out without all the fluff, which is most of the email.
That aside, I'm happy it worked out and I understand it's hard to send an email like that.
by pjsg on 8/31/24, 12:45 AM
I felt this way as well, but I was fortunate enough to be working in a large company that had a senior engineer track leading to Distinguished Engineer (DE) and then Fellow. I knew that I wasn't Fellow material, but being a DE meant that I could focus on technical issues and not on management issues. Of course, management being management, they tried to give me a project that was not going well, so I left to join an early stage startup.
I'm going to succeed in having my entire 40+ year career in software without ever having had to manage another person. I'm fortunate enough to have had a number of managers who can recognize my strong (and weak) points and then use me in the most effective manner.
by pacija on 8/30/24, 7:52 PM
To realize one does not want to climb the ladder is fine. To realize there isn't any ladder to climb is enlightenment.
by WirelessGigabit on 8/31/24, 12:49 AM
I was in this position. Either advance to Staff Engineer (with 0% coding) or leave the group.
The group I was a part of did not realize that not all good developers make good managers.
I've always firmly believed that I am not good in a people leading position, and that I excel as an IC.
I never ended up finding a new group in the company, as a company-wide layoff of software engineers ended my relationship with them.
I just found a new role as an IC, and I couldn't be happier.
by ezekg on 8/30/24, 6:42 PM
I resonate with this. Thanks for sharing. I had similar emotions when I penned my resignation email after I decided to go full-time on my business.
by martin293 on 8/30/24, 7:42 PM
How did it work out for you in the end?