from Hacker News

Calling All Hackers

by picture on 8/21/24, 2:08 AM with 253 comments

• by AYBABTME on 8/21/24, 12:30 PM

  I thought this would be bad. The start with security stuff isn't my vibe. But then I kept reading it and the storytelling kept me. The econ stuff, parallels, etc.

  It ended up capturing perfectly a bunch of ideas I've been having for a few months now. ZIRP was toxic. It made us bad and lazy. Identifying the phenomenons and explaining their mechanisms has been a useful exercise.

  I think this post will stay in my brain for a long while. I'm at this point in life and this resonates a lot. I want to build useful stuff with intrinsic value and I'm sick of the BS that exulted in the last decade. In my own way I'm trying to start ventures, so it's a good motivating call.

  Slow start but damn solid article.

• by stong1 on 8/21/24, 5:55 PM

  This is my article. Thank you for your kind words, I'm glad you all enjoyed it! I was very surprised to wake up this morning to see it on HN, haha.

• by Aleksdev on 8/21/24, 6:56 AM

  This whole thing comes off as very “edgy”. We just like to tinker with things. It’s really not that deep for most of us.

• by biofox on 8/21/24, 6:03 PM

  As a ex-hacker who left the scene to wear a suit and become a "grown-up", this is refreshing and much more palatable vision of the community that I wish I had seen more of when I was younger:

  `` Hackers should not think of themselves as "oh I am this little guy fighting Big Corporation" or whatever. This is low agency behavior. Instead become the corporation and RUN IT THE WAY YOU THINK IT SHOULD BE RUN." ''

  One question though, to the suggestion that hackers should focus on raising capital in a way that gives them breathing room... how the hell am I supposed to do that?

• by Elfener on 8/21/24, 1:04 PM

  "It's about knowing what happens when you type "google.com" and press Enter" is possibly the best short explanation of hacker culture ever.

• by lifeisstillgood on 8/21/24, 9:26 AM

  This did not seem as bad as it’s played in the comments - it’s somewhat akin to pg’s breakout essay (pg is much much easier to read) but it’s the same thing - set up a company, make the world better. I like the attitude (even if the text formatting could be improved but house style is house style)

• by winterrx on 8/21/24, 10:05 PM

  > You can understand computers and science and math as much as you want, but you will not be able to fix the bigger issues by yourself. The systems that run the world are much bigger than what we can break on our laptops and lab benches.

  This.

• by benreesman on 8/21/24, 6:36 AM

  I’ll cut the author some slack because the alternative is worse: knowing things is better than an active posture of ignorance.

  But let’s take it easy on the gatekeeping that any of that is even a little complicated.

  Quantum chromodynamics is complicated: price-time precedence in financial markets is flash cards.

• by willguest on 8/21/24, 8:11 AM

  > "... how the world works"

  This is the most generic trap of all. Get good at something and then extrapolate to claim that you know how everything works. I suggest that, given the insane proliferation of valueless derivatives and ejection of human values from these systems, a more suitable conclusion might be that this is how the world dies.

• by goodpoint on 8/21/24, 1:26 PM

  > Hackers should not think of themselves as "oh I am this little guy fighting Big Corporation" or whatever. [...] Instead become the corporation

  Hacker culture is inherently antiauthoritarian. Wanting to become the big corporation is something you would expect only from "hacker" "news".

• by default-kramer on 8/21/24, 6:35 AM

  > The market is incentivized to deliver a product that meets the minimum bar to meet that checkbox, while being useless. I invite you to think of your favorite middleware or EDR vendors here. For passionate security founders considering raising venture, remember that this is what your "success" is being benchmarked against.

  > Do not swallow blackpills. It's easy to get really cynical and think things are doomed

  > Creating leverage for yourself. Hackers should not think of themselves as "oh I am this little guy fighting Big Corporation" or whatever. This is low agency behavior. Instead become the corporation and RUN IT THE WAY YOU THINK IT SHOULD BE RUN.

  Should I do it? Does this mean me? Obviously not, because I don't know shit about EDR. But obviously neither does Crowdstrike. I mean really, I couldn't possibly do any worse... right? Right? On the internet, it's easy to feel outclassed. But IRL, a large majority of people suck at their job. So in theory this should work.

  In practice, I guess I'm just blackpilled. For much less effort I can get paid 6 figures for 2 hours of work per week. [Also, I realize that winning at business is more difficult than I'm implying. But if my former bosses, who didn't do much other than yell at people and also drugs, could build a 25M/year business then you probably can too.]

• by kazcaptain on 8/21/24, 6:29 AM

  i like this take a lot, what I get is hacker = infinitely curious individual

• by defrost on 8/21/24, 5:07 AM

      Calling All Hackers | 2 points 15 hours ago | 
      Phrack 71 | 194 points 1 day ago | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41296949
      Calling All Hackers | 7 points 1 day ago | 
      Phrack Issue #71 | 12 points 1 day ago |

• by TacticalCoder on 8/21/24, 10:03 PM

  That article is worth reading. If you don't have the time, at least take a look at the "liquidity cycle" ASCII art: it is wonderful!

• by 78987978k87 on 8/21/24, 2:30 PM

  I come from the later phone phreak era of the 90's and late 2000's. The phraase "hack the planet" from the movie hackers I love. You can control anything once you understand its behavior. 5 minutes is all you need to cause a little chaos.

  life is all about systems. once you understand how to break down systems, you can hack all of them. it does not matter what your knowledge or skill level is on a particular system as long as you can break it all down to its fundamental parts and understand its behavior. most things you only need to observe before understanding.

  I agree with others though, the article comes across as a little cocky. its also fine to be a hacker who only focuses on one particular area. it does not make you less of a hacker. you only need to understand systems.

• by shahzaibmushtaq on 8/21/24, 1:02 PM

  The author is telling us that "Hackers" are people who know enough ins and outs about the things they interact with on a daily basis.

  > "My point is, it is not just about computers. It's about understanding how the world works. The world is made up of people. As much as machines keep society running, those machines are programmed by people--people with managers, spouses, and children; with wants, needs, and dreams. And it is about using that knowledge to bring about the change you want to see.

  That is what being a hacker is all about."

  I usually read/listen to people's experiences and whether or not their stories truly make sense depends on how they present them to the world.

• by boomskats on 8/21/24, 12:15 PM

  Entertaining read. To me it feels like a modern version of The Mentor's original manifesto, but having resigned itself to middle age. My inner 12 year old wants to frame this one too.

• by vicken on 8/21/24, 10:36 PM

  This isn't just a call to all hackers...this is a call to all entrepreneurs. It really highlights the artificial success of many companies today.

• by neycoda on 9/3/24, 2:08 AM

  The author may know how the world works but they don't know how to make an easily-readable webpage.

• by iwontberude on 8/21/24, 5:00 PM

  > Knowing that you're not worth burning a 0day on

  This has been a pretty tried and true way for me to figure out who is schizophrenic and who is important.

• by fredgrott on 8/21/24, 5:21 PM

  Good news....you know that worry about zero interest?

  TARP was closed in fall of 2023 as all assets were sold off, see https://home.treasury.gov/data/troubled-asset-relief-program

  That means assuming we do not screw up again, no more zero or negative interest situations.

• by matrix87 on 8/21/24, 7:23 AM

  I'm saying this on the wrong forum...

  all this shit I hear about working in early stage startups and I'm honestly surprised why anyone would bother (unless they're a founder)

• by udev4096 on 8/21/24, 1:43 PM

  Good to see phrack finally supporting HTTPS.

• by adhambadr on 8/21/24, 7:44 PM

  Loved this. Thank you for putting it together, I could relate to it on a level you couldn’t possibly imagine.

• by 0xbadcafebee on 8/21/24, 4:15 PM

  So a young hacker turned tech bro learned about the financial markets and told himself he was still a hacker working in tech and financial markets. But I see nothing of hacking here. I see pontificating about an "ethos" and how great hackers are, and making it seem like financial markets, bitcoin and startups is some mysterious unknown to "hack". Really it's just a job. Hey, you wanna nerd out on this stuff, that's great. But just doing a job in financial markets or silicon valley doesn't make you a hacker, or what you do hacking.

• by shepherdjerred on 8/21/24, 6:25 PM

  As someone who doesn't have a formal understanding of finances/economics, I really enjoyed the first half of this post.

  Are there any good resources to understand the world's financial systems as a layman? I'm not looking to be an expert.

• by SebFender on 8/21/24, 12:00 PM

  Looking at the article I was expecting some dude popping out of nowhere on a skateboard.

• by sudd11 on 8/22/24, 4:50 AM

  Great narration! Thanks for the article.

  Loved this line: "Nowadays, to me it's about creating good jobs for my friends, helping our customers, and taking care of the community".

  Good luck!

• by debo_ on 8/21/24, 5:51 PM

  > A hacker is someone who understands how the world works. It's about knowing what happens when you type "google.com" and press Enter. It's about knowing how your computer turns on, about memory training, A20, all of that. It's about modern processors, their caches, and their side channels. It's about DSi bootloaders and how the right electromagnetic faults can be used to jailbreak them. And it's about how Spotify and Widevine and AES and SGX work so you can free your music from the shackles of DRM.

  This is a very... interesting definition of "the world."

• by sixthDot on 8/21/24, 9:09 AM

  I feel miserable as I only check 4 or 5 criterions over 8000.

• by kayo_20211030 on 8/21/24, 3:30 PM

  I agree with the premise and conclusions, but what struck me, particularly, about this was how well it was written. Thanks to the author for a super piece.

• by RaVeN_ShP on 8/21/24, 11:57 AM

  Do group buys for IDA Pro even still exist?

• by pcdoodle on 8/21/24, 4:45 PM

  I really enjoyed reading that. Thank you.

• by fsndz on 8/21/24, 11:21 AM

  Absolutely great read. My thesis is you have to understand how the world works and one aspect of it is quickly identifying mainstream lies: https://medium.com/thoughts-on-machine-learning/the-secret-o...

• by jchor on 8/21/24, 10:27 PM

  This is such a beautifully written story with it's own kind of elegance. Love it!

• by zenetix on 8/22/24, 8:11 PM

  I appreciate the spirit of this article - to use knowledge to bring about the change you want to see. However, while my friends are being helped by my knowledge, someone else is trying to help their friends. And I imagine this scenario has played out many times in modern society.

  In this system, someone has to lose for someone to win. Felt like a strong reminder that capitalism subsumes all critique into itself.

• by set5think on 8/21/24, 12:32 PM

  Thank you for finding a great way to say what I have been trying to say all my life. I will keep this with me for the rest of my life

  -Hassan

• by hsbauauvhabzb on 8/21/24, 9:12 AM

  If I’ve ever seen an article that needs a tldr, this is it.

  Just because we’re both hackers, doesn’t mean you can call on me. I don’t care about all your handles or what you think hacking should be, get to the point and stop wasting my time.

• by port19 on 8/21/24, 8:48 AM

  > 3 - How Money Works

  Bold

• by ThatUnknownDude on 8/23/24, 9:34 AM

  Lmao I read the title as Optimus Prime as he says "Calling all autobots"

• by kelsey98765431 on 8/21/24, 4:35 PM

  gz nspky ggwp

• by mrinfinitiesx on 8/21/24, 4:45 AM

  Conway's law

• by afpx on 8/21/24, 5:16 PM

  If your company is successful, won’t the VCs just spin up some clones?

• by denvaar on 8/21/24, 3:36 PM

  "It's about knowing more about the web than most, but still choosing to make your site as mobile-unfriendly as possible." /s

  EDIT: I actually love that it's text based, even to the point of creating sigma notation out of plain text.

• by mehulashah on 8/21/24, 10:41 AM

  > “The point is, all of this made me feel very small and powerless after I realized the sheer size of the problems I was staring at. Nowadays, to me it's about creating good jobs for my friends, helping our customers, and taking care of the community. Importantly, I realized that this is still making a bigger positive impact than what I could have done alone just as an individual hacker or engineer.”

  I couldn’t have said it better. This is why I’m an entrepreneur and still take the pains to do it.

• by cyberes on 8/21/24, 1:26 PM

  Really pointless article

• by jll29 on 8/21/24, 1:10 PM

  Web Page Blocked!

    You have tried to access a web page which belongs to a category that is blocked.
  

  :-(