from Hacker News

Boys Get Everything, Except the Thing That's Most Worth Having

by sandwichukulele on 6/5/24, 9:19 PM with 18 comments

  • by goles on 6/5/24, 9:50 PM

  • by legerdemain on 6/5/24, 11:34 PM

    This is yet another editorial that rehashes cliches about "toxic masculinity" and the "loneliness epidemic." Not to say these cliches don't have a basis in reality, but let's remember that this is an editorial whose purpose is to drive sales of the guest author's book.

    The author, Ruth Whippman, is a "current affairs" journalist and documentary maker. In other words, she has made a career of picking trending pop-psychology topics and writing fluff commentary on them. Her books have subtitles like "Why are we driving ourselves crazy and how can we stop?"

    Having said this, one pattern in how adult men behave emerges very clearly, at least to me, living in a middle-class US suburb. Men don't have a habit of building community. Women do.

    For example, my suburb and neighboring ones have subreddit communities. Those subs regularly get posts from new arrivals who have trouble finding friends.

    On average, female posters mostly get responses from other women, and most of the responses are about making plans to exchange contacts, get together as a group, and try activities together.

    On average, male posters get grouchy responses from other men telling them that they aren't trying hard enough or creatively enough.

    Women in my area have built social organizations that reach out to female newcomers and try to pair them up with other women looking for activity partners. Men have not.

  • by tmnvix on 6/5/24, 10:30 PM

    > We have spent the past half-decade wrestling with ideas of gender and privilege, attempting to challenge the old stereotypes and power structures.

    I think it's worth considering how this approach has differed for girls and boys.

    For girls, the predominant approach seems to be positive messaging along the lines of 'you can do anything' and 'girl power'. It's an approach of encouragement.

    For boys, the message is largely 'don't be toxic'. It's an approach that appears to assume masculinity is unappealing and something to be fought.

    I'm not going to argue that our culture doesn't encourage some very unhealthy and frankly antisocial ideas about what it is to 'be a man', but I question what is being achieved by focusing so much on these without balancing the message. Part of the reason for the emphasis I think comes from the way the encouragement is presented to girls - e.g. 'men and boys are holding you back and you should focus on how in order to fight it' (not untrue in many cases).

    I have a young son and I worry about the messages he will take on board as he grows up. I will do my best to make sure he doesn't adopt an unhealthy version of masculinity, but at the same time I don't want him to grow up thinking that there is something inherently wrong with him (i.e. just by virtue of being male he is somehow 'toxic').

    I also have a friend with a son who is now a teenager. I've known her son since they were two and watched them grow up. At about age 13 they let us know that they were not 'male'. Fair enough. Still, they haven't adopted some sort of feminine identity instead. Rather, it seems to me that they have essentially looked at what they thought 'being male' meant and decided they did not want to be that. Many of their peers did the same (some even changing their name).

    I can't help but think that - at least in the case of my friend's son - this is not some example of 'being born in the wrong body', but a reaction to a widespread derogatory narrative about what it means to be male. I know that as a teen I was very uncomfortable with some of the expectations around that (being aggressively competitive, being stronger than others, etc). Had I been in an environment where the idea of gender was being questioned and criticised so widely, maybe I would have rejected my gender in the same way. I'm glad I didn't, because with time I have come to realise that I define what 'being a man' is by virtue of being one.

    It's a difficult path for boys today. I see it in the young people around me. There are some young people I know will do well in this world - it is easy to recognise from a relatively early age. Confidence, a positive attitude, intelligence, competence, etc. The interesting thing to me is that when I think about the young people I know and who has these qualities there is a clear bias towards the girls and young woman and I can't help thinking that this is directly related to the messages we are giving young people about who they are.

  • by deodar on 6/5/24, 9:42 PM

    I'm genuinely surprised to see this article in NYT, although even now they couldn't resist taking a dig at "toxic masculinity".

    For too long we have been happy to ignore the challenges faced by young men.

  • by xchip on 6/5/24, 10:14 PM