from Hacker News

Developers are not neccessarily nerds

by hxii on 5/25/24, 12:30 PM with 33 comments

  • by tombert on 5/25/24, 1:56 PM

    I have definitely been "the nerdy guy" at pretty much every software job I have ever had. I get needlessly obsessed with the cool mathey parts of software and formal methods, and consistently people get extremely turned off by the idea that anyone in software actually does math. They took the job because it pays well and it beats working outside, not because of some dogmatic obsession with all the tech that powers everything. Obviously I'm not going to begrudge someone for doing a job for the paycheck, that's what we all do and you don't have to be obsessed with every aspect of your job to be decent at it, but it was definitely a wake-up call when I first started as a software engineer.

    My first job after dropping out of college was working on billing and management software for Martial Arts studios. When I first got the job I assumed everyone there was going to be as geeky as I was, and be obsessed with trying out new programming languages or editors or the newest flavor of Linux/FreeBSD I was installing on my laptop. Instead everyone was not interested at all; they were fine just having the pre-installed Eclipse IDE (this is before IntelliJ had pretty thoroughly consumed the market), running Microsoft Windows everywhere, and would go home and watch some form of sportsball. I didn't dislike my coworkers, they were perfectly decent humans and always nice to me, but it was a little disappointing, because there was a realization that I would never really "fit in" at my jobs in the traditional sense.

    As I've had a million different jobs at different companies, I've more or less learned that it's kind of alright if I'm forever the "weird guy", and I don't have to be "normal" to be respected and liked at a job, and I've become less disappointed in my coworkers as a result. Your job doesn't have to be your identity, programming isn't a religion, and it's ok if I'm the geekiest guy in the room.

  • by graypegg on 5/25/24, 1:52 PM

    I can’t quite pin down what it is, but something about this feels… bitter? There’s definitely something lost with having more people invade your community, no doubt. But casting a wide net where “doesn’t know what nvim is” and “being a typing monkey that doesn’t give a fuck” are directly correlated feels like you’re picking a radius of hobbies around yours and setting up a fence.

    I know a ton of people who are into development as a design medium. They aren’t really into the nitty-gritty of the tools, but they will talk your ear off about colour theory, interaction UX models and their favourite eras of icon design. Seeing a lot more designer-developers lately, which makes me happy. :)

    There’s of course lots of dull people, of which some percentage will become developers because it’s a career. But I just don’t like making nvim and YOUR nerdiness the barrier eh?

  • by samaltmanfried on 5/25/24, 2:05 PM

    I'm in my early 40s. When I first learned programming it felt like I was breaking into some kind of cool subculture, with its own counterculture folklore and customs. 'Programming culture' seems to have shifted from 'Hack The Planet' to MacBooks and the Ivy League. I work with a lot of people half my age, and I have a lot of trouble relating to them. It seems like there's fewer SWEs who love tinkering with technology for its own sake, and more people who would be just as happy paving roads if it paid as much.

  • by jvanderbot on 5/25/24, 1:45 PM

    Just got a new job. The guys I work with are twenty-something jocks, straight laced, professional, powerlifting, disciplined, knowledgeable jocks. If anyone is still hanging onto the nerd stereotype, it wouldn't last long here. Some went to prep school and played polo. Some look like Calvin Klein commercials.

    The professional class is thoroughly embedded in programming circles.

    But still, about half of us are keyboard-programming stereotypical nerds and I love them too.

  • by chubot on 5/25/24, 1:48 PM

    Some of the most skilled programmers I've worked with don't care much about tools. And this was ~20 years ago -- it doesn't have anything to do with "lower barriers to entry".

    They just get the job done. They definitely are not futzing around with changing terminals and color schemes

    In certain domains you have to use the tools you're given, e.g. programming game consoles (at least 20 years ago), embedded systems, nVidia chips, etc.

    Or just moving to a new company where they do things a different way

    I'm definitely more on the "cares about tools" side, but I recognize that it's an anti-pattern when you spend too much time on that.

    Sometimes it's more efficient to adapt yourself to the problem being solved

  • by znpy on 5/25/24, 2:01 PM

    Developers are not nerds *anymore*.

    Some years ago (10-15 i think) computer science and computer programming became mainstream, and a lot of things changed (some for the better, some for the worse).

    I’m not sure how i feel about this.

  • by wenc on 5/25/24, 8:33 PM

    I don't think devs need to be nerds -- after all, it's just a job.

    FAANG devs I meet are rarely nerds -- they studied CS in college and got into tech because it fit their aptitudes and paid well. They work in sprints, clear out backlogs, are on-call sometimes, and generally get the job done.

    But on the flip side, as a nerd myself, I miss the passion that tinkerers bring and the hunger for learning new things and figuring things out. The kinds that know how cuckoo filters work, how to use /dev/shm, etc.

    Maybe it's just my limited sampling, but the majority of devs these days aren't very passionate about their job. Part of it might be a function of them being a very tiny cog in a very big wheel where they have little autonomy to invent new things. There's also the long work hours and TC-maximizing mentality that leaves them no room to engage their interests, if they had any to begin with.

  • by Fire-Dragon-DoL on 5/25/24, 6:13 PM

    I don't love the connotation that the term "nerd" has for various people. In my country of birth, you know everything about soccer, you are "a person", maybe a "soccer team x fan". if you know everything about computers, or videogames, you are a nerd. The normalization of the term (good), did not change the connotation: "guy who likes computers/videogames/even board games".

    Maybe it's me, but it feels offensive, unless you start calling the soccer fan "nerd" too (which would make sense).

  • by kayodelycaon on 5/25/24, 1:54 PM

    I was shocked when I ran across a relatively decent “full stack” developer who ran Linux but had almost no working knowledge of the command line. All they knew was copying commands from Google and pasting them into a terminal.

    I never thought I’d have check for basic command line proficiency in job interviews.

  • by swayvil on 5/25/24, 1:54 PM

    Maybe normal people are nerdified.

    Spending large amounts of time focusing your attention on programming stuff can do that.

    This is the best scene : https://youtu.be/cjyqWsrpQAA?si=mCzW_05uF_udToyA

  • by neonate on 5/25/24, 1:51 PM

  • by bdcravens on 5/25/24, 1:45 PM

    As the world is eaten by software, we need more "developers", and that need only gets met by opening the gates wider. (until of course developers get eaten by AI and we once again only need the experts and gatekeepers)

  • by giantg2 on 5/25/24, 1:47 PM

    This is a huge spectrum too. I've been on teams where I'm the need, sharing cool tricks and playing around with emerging tech. I've also been on teams where I'm on the opposite end.

  • by dzogchen on 5/25/24, 2:36 PM

    I applaud the people that spend time away from their computer instead of fucking around with vim in their free time as well as spend 40 hours a week working behind a compute.r

  • by SamPatt on 5/25/24, 4:08 PM

    One quibble: some aspects of being a nerd are likely innate, but many are a choice, and being the stereotypical nerd isn't necessarily a lifelong condition.

    In my teens I was very into computers, ham radio, fantasy books, and pretty well typified being a nerd.

    I became obese and took an unhealthy pleasure in hating the outdoors and thinking anyone who enjoyed exercise was shallow and probably dumb.

    Then in my late 20s my parents died young, and I snapped out of being so foolish.

    Maybe if the industry has become less nerdy, part of the cause is some individuals becoming less nerdy as they age?