from Hacker News

The Denmark secret: how it became the most trusting country

by PotatoNinja on 5/22/24, 10:50 AM with 114 comments

• by coreyh14444 on 5/22/24, 11:22 AM

  American in Denmark here: Yes, this is exactly right. The article covers a lot of topics but does a good job for the most part. The only thing not mentioned from HN point of view is that for tech workers, salaries are MUCH lower than in the US. My family's quality of life quotient though is very high. My kids (12, 14) have basically free reign of the city and we don't worry about them at all.

• by jayski on 5/22/24, 12:24 PM

  I visited 2 years ago, it made me rethink everything I thought about society.

  The parliament has no guards, you can just walk in and talk to one of your representatives. Who BTW all biked there, evidenced by all the bikes outside. 95%+ of people look to be thin and fit. Everyone looks happy.

  A common misconception is that the Danes success is their system. I like how this article frames it around trust, because that is really the core issue. The system is almost irrelevant if you have decent,honorable people participating in it.

• by monssooon on 5/22/24, 4:30 PM

  Dane here: Left Denmark (DK) though. It is true that social security in DK is world best. And salaries are high compared to EU standards. Also that leaving babys on the street is probably safe. However the article seems to paint a rather rosy picture. DK has a dark side that no one talks about like "Jante Law", extremely feminine values (good if you like that - very bad if you dont), exclusive culture, very bad climate! Great place to work and have kids - if you stay inside and "play along".

• by throwaway22032 on 5/22/24, 11:39 AM

  The common factor in all high trust societies seems to be that they are culturally homogenous.

• by yetanother12345 on 5/23/24, 8:46 PM

  There's a thin line between trusting and gullible, and the difference may be hard to perceive for outsiders.

  Trusting and gullible alike also means easily exploitable, especially when coupled with hospitality which (believe it or not!) is, or at least was, a core value in DK. This whole line of reasoning has been very visible for the average Dane throughout the past 3-4 decades, as non-Danes have aquired larger shares of the general residency.

  The general rule of "When in Rome, do as the Romans do" has not really been observed at all by a significant fraction of those visiting or relocating to the country. And the Danes do notice that, although a fraction of the populace choose to wear the rosy-coloured glasses at all costs because principle, culture, tradition (culture matters a lot in DK, the culture is fairly conservative even though most Danes will deny that they themselves are).

  The "trust" that non-Danish media likes to herald now is just a shadow of what it was, and it is steadily albeit slowly on the decline - especially in Dane-foreigner relationships IMHO.

  If you dislike the facts, feel free to dismiss this as anecdata.

• by trelane on 5/22/24, 12:09 PM

  This sounds a lot like small midwestern towns, at least a few decades ago.

• by ronjouch on 5/22/24, 12:23 PM

  Interesting, will read Gert Tinggaard Svendsen's research.

  French passerbys: for a similar study on why France is particularly lacking trust, see CEPREMAP / Yann Algan & Pierre Cahuc (2007) La société de défiance - Comment le modèle social français s’autodétruit. It's been too long since I last read it for me to be able to summarize it in English, so I won't. Here's the free PDF, in French: https://www.cepremap.fr/depot/opus/OPUS09.pdf .

• by k1ck4ss on 5/22/24, 12:13 PM

  a perfect example of a society based on trust. the opposite example is one based on kinship.

• by koolba on 5/22/24, 11:45 AM

  > Adults who trust each other not to steal babies go on to trust one another around older children playing unsupervised.

  Such delusion to think we could have a society where people don’t steal babies the moment they are left unattended. I bet they’re not even worried about a passerby taking candy from them too.

• by incomingpain on 5/22/24, 12:17 PM

  I've heard this a few times before. Admittedly I'm not that familiar with Denmark. Lets check out the livability.

  GDP is okish; has signs of foreign influence or some sort of financial crisis.

  2.5% unemployment is fantastic. 75% participation and steadily climbing, elderly going back to work?

  https://www.populationpyramid.net/denmark/2020/

  Wow, only 5 million people? Toronto has more people. Though yes elderly going back to work.

  Central bank is very healthy.

  Interest rates went negative a little bit. Seemingly 0% typically? Hence the elderly going back to work.

  Their government didnt print a bunch of money?

  ~250% private debt to gdp is high, housing crisis?

  excellent balance of trade.

  !!! government debt to gdp is below 30% holy smokes!

  Big boost to military spending

  Household debts to gdp below 100%, but not by much. That's ok.

  60% housing ownership isnt great. Housing bubble crashing most likely with high private debt to gdp, high rates. Likely priced their own people out of the market; forcing the bubble to crash.

  55% personal income tax rate? Yikes! 25% sales tax, 22% corporate tax. Those are some insane taxes.