from Hacker News

Not an iPad Pro Review: Why iPadOS Still Doesn't Get the Basics Right

by ihuman on 5/13/24, 10:33 PM with 576 comments

  • by AnonC on 5/14/24, 11:39 AM

    I skimmed through the article but didn’t find mention of one glaring deficiency in iPadOS — it still doesn’t support multiple users and multiuser switching, even though the hardware is capable of it (and exceeds the capacity of many Macs before it). I decided several years ago that I’m not buying another iPad until this is sorted out by iPadOS.

    I think of iPhones as personal devices, where each person may have their own. But iPads are more likely to be shared for personal use in families. The fact that each person using it cannot have their own user profiles, app data, etc., is a huge drawback. Apple has supported this for a long time (though probably not in the best way) for education, but it’s not available to others. Even tvOS supports switching between user profiles quickly.

    Apple enforcing the idea that iPad (with iPadOS) should also be a personal device — one device per person — makes the user experience quite poor.

  • by gcanyon on 5/14/24, 1:22 AM

    What's absurd to me is: forget all of what this article writes about, because Apple could fix all of it and the iPad would still be fundamentally flawed at a more basic level than anything listed, because editing text is horrifically broken, has been since the first iPhone came out, and hasn't seen any significant improvement since I can't remember.

    And the crazy part is: just like this article, everyone overlooks it.

    Pay attention, and you'll notice it. (sorry to everyone who had blanked it out). Think about how long it takes/ho many steps it takes to put quotes around a chunk of text; to correct a misspelling; to rearrange some words. It's agonizing once you think about it, and Apple (nor Google, as far as I know) has done zero to fix it in years (a decade?).

  • by swatson741 on 5/14/24, 12:08 PM

    All of this is very problematic and a good reason to skip the iPad despite it's exceptional hardware.

    Personally, as mentioned in the article, the lack of multiple audio streams (or background audio) is very annoying. If you play any audio from Safari it completely pauses what your doing in other apps like YouTube or Twitch. So when you're done with Safari you have to go back into those apps and resume them.

    Stage manager is glitchy on external displays. There are a lot of known shippable bugs in stage manager. Bugs that haven't been fixed in years.

    Most unfortunately of all, as a utility, there's no developer tools. When you do software development for an iPad you usually have to put it into developer mode. Why not pull down Xcode, Xcode cli tools, and a terminal emulator as well as enable the developer section of the App Store as part of enabling developer mode? There's no reason for things not to work like this.

  • by PlunderBunny on 5/13/24, 11:12 PM

    I would just like a way to simplify the iPad OS - my mum uses it to keep in touch with her kids, and when she accidentally enables multi-app mode, it inevitably results in a call to one of her kids to sort it out. Older people - even when they aren't disabled - don't have the fine motor control required to precisely aim their touches/swipes on the screen. She prefers her old iPad because it has a physical button - the swiping up gesture is a bit tricky for her.

    I want an iPad that runs one app at a time, no hot corners, no swiping from edges.

  • by ProfessorLayton on 5/13/24, 11:30 PM

    Apple really, really needs to develop something similar to Samsung's DEX. They insist on keeping iPadOS on training wheels, while also making macOS more iPad-like (To its detriment imo).

    What I think would satisfy a lot of users is if an iPad (And even an iPhone!) turned into a full-on Mac with full macOS with a keyboard and pointer attached. No need to create a convoluted hybrid touch+pointer UX that wouldn't be great at either, like Microsoft has proven. I simply want to be able to do more with the hardware I already own, and transfer files between my mobile/content consumption modes and when I'm creating/developing/working on something.

    I know Apple just wants to sell more hardware, but what's happened instead is I've lost interest in getting an iPad altogether.

  • by slimebot80 on 5/13/24, 11:05 PM

    WWDC may reveal a new momentum. Or they might reveal exciting new sticker packs for Messages.app
  • by enceladus06 on 5/14/24, 4:06 PM

    The iPad Pro is the most wasted potential of any device right now. Single core speed like a i9 14th gen, but the device is so limited no AAA games selection, desktop apps, or anything. This thing could literally be running desktop-class COD / Fortnite/ Photoshop/ VScode / Xcode but Apple won't let it.
  • by e63f67dd-065b on 5/14/24, 3:54 PM

    Apple is caught between a rock and a hard place here. On one hand, probably the vast majority of ipad users don't know multitasking exists, have never even opened the Files app, don't care about the lack of system utilities, and use the iPad as a simple big phone. On the other hand, they've been trying to sell these "pro" devices with impressive hardware to target a small market of consumers with "professional" workflows, who do care about all of these things.

    My view is that, fundamentally, a lot of "professional" workflows is just as much about shuffling data around as it is working on said data. Just as data science taught us that data cleaning is 80% of the job, the same applies to video editing, programming, etc. iPadOS is uniquely bad at moving data around due to its onerous requirements around sandboxing and its poor interfaces around inter-app communication, when these are precisely the things that are most needed.

    And then there's the multitasking, which remains terrible to this day. Can they improve it? Definitely, but I wouldn't want to be the guy trying to figure out how to do it without ruining the normal user experience.

  • by SeanLuke on 5/14/24, 8:18 AM

    Fun fact. Three of the apps the author is missing (TextEdit, Dictionary, and Preview) are not originally MacOS X apps. They were NeXTSTEP apps.
  • by dr_ on 5/14/24, 2:43 PM

    Microsoft is updating it's Surface hardware with ARM chips in a couple of weeks. This would include the Surface Pro 10, which is otherwise excellent save for poor ergonomics if actually laying down and using it on your lap. If they could fix this, it would serve the population looking for a hybrid tablet/laptop device well. (it will also have an oled screen in this upcoming update). Yes, its Windows, but I much prefer the file manager in Windows to Mac, and definitely over ipadOS. They will also be announcing AI related updates in 2 weeks, and I get the feeling MSFT has leapfrogged apple by a year or two on this count.
  • by can16358p on 5/14/24, 1:52 PM

    I believe the biggest barrier here is the background processes (and true inter-app communication that'd come with it).

    Many pro apps have either plugins and/or interoperability with other apps/extensions on the desktop.

    In iPad, even if you have the app (e.g. Logic, Resolve, FCP) it's very hard to create a "real" experience like the desktop with file/plugin interoperability or a true ecosystem. In addition, this is why we don't have any developer tools that'd actually be anything of a daily driver (rather a proof of concept).

    If we get true multitasking/background tasks, then I believe many other pro apps will jump onboard.

    The hardware is absolutely fantastic, the SoC is more than capable. We just need the software support.

  • by daft_pink on 5/13/24, 11:25 PM

    I really agree with the author that the background utilities and lack of multitasking sucks on iPad, but I also think that the locked down nature of iPad OS is very limiting.

    I feel that I actually want a locked down operating system on my phone where the privacy implications are just to high, but on a computer or tablet, I prefer the more open operating system and find the walled garden so limiting. You really can’t run python or code on it and it doesn’t offer the same apps that make the Mac so amazing like raycast, etc.

  • by browningstreet on 5/13/24, 11:54 PM

    This is true for both iOS and iPadOS -- they way they handle security for links.

    Example: I have Youtube installed on the i*device. I click on a Youtube link and it opens in a webview, but doesn't know who I am. I'm logged in via the app, and I'm logged in via Safari, but in the protected webview, it doesn't know. Sometimes it's easy to click on the "Open in App" link, and sometimes it doesn't work at all. If I try to login, then the system sends me to login via Google, which will then send me over to Gmail for MFA validation.

    This can't be. It doesn't work like this on macOS. The security model is hell.

  • by tonymet on 5/13/24, 11:47 PM

    Lack of background apps alone kills remoting via SSH.

    Another gripe I have is lack of keyboard shortcut consistency. MacOS apps are encouraged through the API and defaults to provide keyboard shortcuts for all actions. On iOS most Apps don't implement them at all. Gmail app is the worst example.

    Copy paste is clumsy as well.

  • by ggm on 5/14/24, 11:39 AM

    I work with seniors helping them navigate online life and by choice specialise in ipad and iPhone owners. All of them miss skuomorphic elements and clear signals of what is and what is not an active touchable region.

    Apple don't manage pre- digital seniors well. With lots of emerging functional loss if not outright dementia, these devices are confusing.

    I would love to talk to Apple UX about some of the inconsistency.

  • by mikeocool on 5/14/24, 11:33 AM

    Man people love to hate the iPad. I agree many of these critiques (though it seems odd to complain about the lack of TextEdit and then describe the notes app so precisely).

    I still use my iPad (and I imagine the author does to) because there are things it does SO much better than a computer — even beyond consumption.

    Using the Apple Pencil with apps like Notability, Procreate and Lightroom is IMHO so much better than the equivalent experience on desktop.

    Notetaking on computers has been sorely lacking basically forever. Being able to quickly take notes, interspersed with sketches, arrows, and symbols, and layout the page exactly how I want — just how I’d do it in a physical notebook — is awesome.

  • by julienb_sea on 5/13/24, 11:34 PM

    I have to imagine Apple is working (very long-term, slowly) towards either a unified OS or a true overhaul of ipadOS that addresses the concerns. They just are fundamentally not incentivized to actually fix the problem. People will just buy both.

    Also, who is really the market for an ipad pro. The average consumer is going to want a cheap ipad model for media and game consumption on the go. Ipad pro is for creatives or tech enthusiasts with disposable income; in either scenario, owning both ipad and Macbook is fairly likely, and they do work well as complementary devices.

    I'm still using a 2018 ipad pro. it has the modern design and modern keyboard and flies through everything. I use it to look at slack sometimes. It's pretty pointless to me as primarily a macbook user and I don't see any reason whatsoever to upgrade it.

  • by prng2021 on 5/13/24, 11:39 PM

    I don't think Apple cares much about improving ipad OS and instead use this form factor to test and scale new technology to be used in products they care much more about, iphones and macbooks. For example, 120Hz Pro Motion, liquid retina, and now the tandem OLED in the latest model all went to ipad first.
  • by Jgrubb on 5/14/24, 1:04 PM

    > I share my frustrations because I care about the platform and want it to get better.

    Caring about someone else’s platform - especially when you care about it more than the people who have control over it - is not where you want to be.

  • by roody15 on 5/14/24, 2:35 PM

    It is a restricted consumer device. Basic computer functionality can often only be added with pay as you go subscription “apps” making the device a parody of a personal computer.

    iPad has gotten better compared to the early days but still remains a device designed around consuming content. It is great at consuming content, books, movies, comics, reading headlines .. etc.

    My two cents.

  • by brokenmachine on 5/13/24, 11:36 PM

    Every Apple review I read reminds me of Russians doing videos begging Putin for things that he definitely won't ever care about.

    >First, as I’ve said multiple times, I love my iPad and want the platform to get better. If you care about something or someone, sometimes you have to tell them what’s wrong in order to improve and find a new path forward. I hope this story can serve as a reference for those with the power to steer iPadOS in a different direction in the future.

    Then goes on to list a million reasons that it sucks, and has sucked for the last 12 years!

    But Apple isn't a dictator and you don't have to stay with them.

    If it doesn't do what you want, buy what does.

    Or just don't buy a product that you know won't do what you want.

    As an aside, both my Android phone from 5 years ago, and my Android tablet, do everything that he complains about his expensive ipad not doing (the only thing I'm not sure about is recording Skype calls).

  • by FerretFred on 5/15/24, 8:19 AM

    If you want real pain, try being an iPad Mini owner! I love the format which is perfect for slinging in a backpack or bag and not having to worry (too much) about pulling out a newly-bent device. I briefly invested in a full-size iPad and quickly exchanged it for another Mini. To me, the Mini represents the ideal compromise between size and usability.

    Regarding pain, not only do Apple largely ignore the device, but accessory manufacturers seem to follow suit. I've lost count of the number of times I've tried to buy a must-have accessory without success. I'm hoping that Apple won't be killing it off any time soon- I'd hate to have to over to the dark side...

  • by kjkjadksj on 5/14/24, 3:49 PM

    I recently had to downgrade my phone for a few days to an original iphone SE, 6s internals basically A9 chip. It was noticeably faster in the ux than my current A13 phone. Makes no sense to me. I type “cal” in spotlight on the A9 phone and I get calendar returned almost instantly. I do the same on the A13 and there’s a few seconds of delay before any results show, but get this I can’t even get calendar to return, only calculator and google calendar that isn’t even installed.

    So considering that new phones aren’t always faster than the old ones where it actually counts (the ux), how are these newer gen ipads fairing? Do they actually feel like upgrades?

  • by walterbell on 5/13/24, 11:39 PM

    iPad has been treated like a relic from a lost civilization.

    We can debate origin stories and mythology, but no one (yet?) has the creative power to change the ancient artifact.

    Meanwhile, it adorns inadvertent museums.

  • by heywoodlh on 5/15/24, 4:49 AM

    > I’m looking forward to the new iPad Pros, but I can’t shake the feeling that the same old iPadOS cycle is about to begin all over again.

    This is EXACTLY how I feel. WWDC will roll around and Apple will completely drop the ball for yet another year with iPadOS.

    I also feel that the iPad Pro is one of the best hardware form factors for a computer — but iPadOS makes it a not great laptop replacement. I can’t help but feel like it would look incredibly foolish for Apple to do their May iPad event announcing M4 iPads — only to find out at WWDC that iPadOS still sucks.

    Thankfully, it seems like most people, tech reviewers, etc. are vocal about iPadOS missing the mark. I hope Apple doesn’t continue to ignore the negative feedback.

  • by jmull on 5/14/24, 2:34 PM

    I like my iPad a lot, and use it every day.

    But I'll probably never buy another. The OS is just too limiting.

    Perhaps they'll eventually decide to let them run MacOS? (Seems like a no-brainer, at least when a keyboard case is in-use, but apparently not.)

  • by gorkish on 5/14/24, 5:04 PM

    This is a simple story that has been told since ipad v1.

    They just need to let you run MacOS on it in a VM and all will be right with the world.

    But they won't because they are greedy selfish bastards that do not actually have the user at heart.

    End of discussion

  • by whalesalad on 5/14/24, 2:32 PM

    I don't know why anyone would want to force a square peg into a round hole using an iPad as an actual computer. The Macbook Air is nearly identical in size, battery life etc.
  • by seanvelasco on 5/14/24, 2:32 PM

    i would love to use vscode in the ipad. one barrier to having a similar experience one the mac is its filesystem. the Files app is nowhere near Finder in terms of utility.

    when riding a bus in singapore, or flying short-distance, i feel awkward using my macbook. whereas if i use an ipad, i feel like it's more appropriate. this is just a personal preference though.

    another thing i'd love for ipads to have is, allowing its display to be used as an external monitor.

  • by multimoon on 5/13/24, 11:50 PM

    Please just let me run macOS apps and I’ll buy one tonight.

    I’d even pay a software unlock for it. It’s the perfect convergence device if only Apple would let it be.

  • by AlexandrB on 5/14/24, 4:02 PM

    The iPad is a bit of tragedy. If it was an open platform, a lot of its problems would be solved - first by third-party software, and later perhaps by Apple copying those successful features/solutions. Because the iPad is a walled garden, it's at the mercy of Apple's narrow vision for how it can be used.
  • by kalyantm on 5/14/24, 10:51 AM

    This probably will never happen, but if they let me run MacOS on the iPad, I'd buy it in a hearbeat.
  • by wffurr on 5/22/24, 8:29 PM

    This person really needs a Surface device instead of an iPad.
  • by meyum33 on 5/14/24, 1:39 PM

    It seems to me that most complains can be simply solved by letting it run macOS.
  • by cloudengineer94 on 5/14/24, 7:40 AM

    Honestly, it' crazy how limited the iPad still is in this day and age. I was hoping for them to add a terminal and improve the files app.

    But I already gave up on it especially after the recent comments from Apple as they want people to buy both devices to 'complement' each other: https://www.macrumors.com/2024/05/13/apple-vp-mac-ipad-compl...

    I own an M1 iPad Pro but 80% of the time I use it as a sidecar due to how limited it is.

  • by classified on 5/15/24, 5:38 AM

    It's true, iPadOS does have ludicrous limitations. I cannot tell whether that's out of sheer incompetence or the greed for subsequent monetization opportunities.
  • by cchance on 5/14/24, 3:48 PM

    Weren't they working on bringing full MacOS to iPad Pro's it seems like the new iPad pro would have been perfect time to just allow us to run OSX on ipad pros
  • by rado on 5/14/24, 4:15 AM

    I’ve been using iPad Pro with keyboard and there are strange limitations indeed, like I can’t submit a Discord or FB post with keyboard alone, I need to use a pointer.
  • by littlecosmic on 5/14/24, 11:52 AM

    Apple locks down the platform which means others can’t contribute, but then isn’t capable enough to fill all the roles it takes to make a professional platform.
  • by roydivision on 5/14/24, 4:05 PM

    Or you could use a laptop...

    I just don't get the obsession some people have for the iPad, jumping through hoops and putting up with so many compromises when most issues are solved using a laptop. Can someone explain this? I have an iPad but I primarily use it for watching films, I wouldn't dream of trying to get any work done on it when I have a Macbook.

  • by Fauntleroy on 5/13/24, 10:47 PM

    It's sad to see so much effort put into reviews like this when it's obvious Apple keeps iPadOS kneecapped on purpose to prevent cannibalization of MacBook sales. All of the author's hopes and dreams are naught when Apple simply doesn't want to fix any of the issues pointed out.
  • by blackeyeblitzar on 5/14/24, 4:00 PM

    iPad needs a generalized OS like macOS to be useful beyond basic consumption. I don’t see any advantage to my iPad Pro above thin and light laptops.
  • by wcski on 5/14/24, 3:41 PM

    iPadOS still doesn't have a native calculator.
  • by barbariangrunge on 5/14/24, 2:24 PM

    I don’t see discussion of this elsewhere, so: the Magic Keyboard isn’t good.

    In some senses, yeah, it’s amazing. But I use the f keys all the time normally. I use esc all the time. The keyboard lacks both. It makes the iPad heavier than my laptop, ruins the pick up and use character; the pencil goes flying if you’re not really careful when carrying it; and you still can’t use it in many circumstances on the couch because of the weight balancing and you have to cradle it.

    It stops it from being a tablet and turns it into an un-ergonomic laptop

  • by kome on 5/14/24, 12:43 PM

    Basically, iPad needs macos.
  • by AzzyHN on 5/14/24, 5:11 PM

    Perhaps I'm just a 23 year old boomer, but the idea of an iPad as a computer replacement doesn't make any sense to me. Sure, there are lots of apps on the App Store, but it doesn't have everything.

    I'd rather use a Chromebook (though, not the cheapest ones) so that there's guaranteed web app compatibility. And I've still got an App Store to do my taxes (or whatever people use their iPads for, I dunno)

  • by anArbitraryOne on 5/14/24, 1:49 PM

    I made this account specifically to hate on MacOS systems. Thanks for the validation
  • by tibbydudeza on 5/14/24, 8:10 PM

    iPad Pro is a product in search of a market.
  • by mrcwinn on 5/14/24, 1:02 PM

    I agree iPadOS is not good enough, but when I hear people call for Apple to merge devices and troll them for maximizing profits, I have to roll my eyes.

    Okay, let's add background task processing, hungrier apps like Xcode, more simultaneous apps. I guess we'll need more memory and compute resources, and so therefore we'll need more battery, too.

    So now I have a 2 lb iPad that doesn't have enough internal space to cool itself. Great. Thanks internet.

  • by nbzso on 5/14/24, 8:36 AM

    Let me start with this. My initial reaction from the first iPad still holds. Why not touch macOS? There is just one answer: Profit. The business is not in solving user problems. It is to create a shiny toy with a limitation which you promise to solve in the near future. I moved away from iPad for drawing and just use it for a second screen on the go. For mobility, I have a smartphone. It is getting ridiculous in an Apple camp. You introduce the last processor on a iPad? But iPad still is not a full laptop or desktop replacement? Why?