from Hacker News

Seven out of 10 Europeans believe their country takes in too many immigrants

by orcul on 5/10/24, 7:16 AM with 90 comments

• by yurishimo on 5/10/24, 9:32 AM

  I certainly understand the sentiment, but my question to someone on the "anti" immigration side would be this: what do you see as a possible alternative solution?

  Populations are shrinking and to keep the economy in a healthy place, money needs to come from somewhere. The easiest solution is to add bodies via immigration. Otherwise taxes need to go up or governments need to spend money incentivizing people to start families, which will also probably necessitate an increase in taxes.

  I moved to the Netherlands a couple of years ago and it's clear to me that the status quo will slowly degrade society eventually. Maybe not in my lifetime and perhaps not in the lifetimes of my future children, but not doing anything is also a decision.

  I think if a country decides that it wants to go down one path that essentially leads to a "natural end" that should be their right as a democratic society, but don't try and hide your nations intentions behind flowery language about inclusivity and diversity. If some ideals are so important to the culture, then I think these nations need to be honest and start codifying more aspects of their desired culture into law or start investing heavily in social programs to foster that longing culture.

  Please, I absolutely want to here some of your ideas on all sides of this issue! Right now I'm just an immigrant sitting on the sidelines waiting to see how this all shakes out.

• by spacebanana7 on 5/10/24, 9:18 AM

  European countries must choose between Americanisation (becoming a nation of immigrations) or Japanification (becoming an elderly nation with plateauing economics) because of the low birth rates & high life expectancy.

  I see the UK/France going for the former option and Poland/Hungary going for the latter. Will be interesting to see how Germany and Sweden decide.

• by alephnerd on 5/10/24, 10:57 AM

  It's interesting seeing non-immigrants on HN trying to extrapolate immigrant choices as to why they move where they do, and by interesting I mean very reductive and insulting.

  I'm the child of immigrants, and my family decided to move to the US over Western Europe or Singapore specifically because the opportunities are greater and Americans are way more open-minded about immigrants mixing their home culture with their adopted culture.

  At the end of the day, European countries will have to make the choice about whether they want to remain monoethnic entities (which itself was a result of ethnic cleansing during and after WW2) or whether they are open to a multicultural identity.

  There's no point for skilled immigrants to go to Europe if they have the opportunity or pathway to PR or Citizenship in North America as salaries are higher, opportunities are greater, and the population is way less xenophobic (p.s. r/Canada is NOT representative of Canadians - and I lived in parts of BC where the Reform Party was extremely popular back in the day)

  Why would a Mexican Engineer want to move to Spain in order to earn peanuts and get called a "Sudaca" when they can earn a higher salary in El Paso or Dallas and still be a couple hours from home.

  Ime, the personal ranking of countries for Asian immigrants (South, East, and Southeast) is as follows:

  Tier 1 - US, Canada (backdoor to US via TN)

  Tier 2 - UK, Australia, NZ, SG, Ireland, HK (before NSL)

  Tier 3 - Rest of Western Europe

  Tier 4 - East Asia, the Gulf, Malaysia

  Most European countries are simply consolation prizes for immigrants. Plenty of people from my region of South Asia worked in the UK and Italy 30-50 years ago, but now prefer Canada and the US instead, or if they're educated staying in India.

• by beAbU on 5/10/24, 10:55 AM

  I wonder how this sentiment would change if illegal and asylum seeking immigration ceases to exist.

  There's lots of noise in Ireland currently due to "tent cities" popping up in Dublin - there's not enough space to accommodate all the asylum seekers that arrive in the city any more. This clearly has a negative impact on everyone's perception of immigration, and the press readily forgets about the immigrants that entered the country through legal channels and are actively contributing to the economy on a daily basis.

• by eimrine on 5/10/24, 8:40 AM

  Tangential, the cookie banner choice between "accept and continue" "subscribe and reject" is a pure gold of dark patterns.

• by mertbio on 5/10/24, 10:57 AM

  They probably meant that their country takes in too many unskilled immigrants, not highly skilled immigrants like doctors, engineers and so on.

• by herbst on 5/10/24, 10:20 AM

  I just parsed the whole findings and damn that's depressing.

  My key finding is that the average European sees the EU and their country go down but his personal situation either improved or at least was stable.

  https://www.arte.tv/sites/corporate/de/umfrage-concerns-and-...

• by nubinetwork on 5/10/24, 8:24 AM

  Funny, if you were to ask that in North America, you'd be called xenophobic.

• by testhest on 5/10/24, 11:01 AM

  Uncontrolled immigration and welfare states don't mix well.

• by doubloon on 5/10/24, 9:05 AM

  Oh the irony

• by whereismyacc on 5/10/24, 10:19 AM

  unfortunate, immigration is good.

• by sans_souse on 5/10/24, 7:46 AM

  Hoo boy, that is some sample size there: "10"