from Hacker News

Leap: A new gesture based interface for devices

by travisglines on 5/21/12, 12:01 PM with 181 comments

  • by danblick on 5/21/12, 3:04 PM

    Not to be cynical, but this reminds me a little of Alan Kay's comment:

    """ By the way, Sketchpad was the first system where it was discovered that the light pen was a very bad input device. The blood runs out of your hand in about 20 seconds, and leaves it numb. And in spite of that it’s been re-invented at least 90 times in the last 25 years. """

    from http://archive.org/details/AlanKeyD1987 around 7:10

  • by iandanforth on 5/21/12, 7:52 PM

    I'm sad the word 'robot' hasn't appeared in this thread yet. Let's correct that.

    Visual slam is great for medium distances, but pointclouds aren't really that dense and are slow to update. Also the lidar to make the point clouds is stupid expensive.

    Add one of these guys onto your robot and you've got a really cool set of 'wiskers.' Short range, highly sensitive, super fast update. I'd love to put several of these on a robot and use that to give it a sensitive field surrounding its body.

    Depending on how open the software and hardware are this will be a great addition to the robotics community.

  • by ChrisFornof on 5/21/12, 6:30 PM

    Dev Kits (free) Ship international within 1-3 months.

    Pre-orders ($70) only ship domestic (for now) around winter.

    20,000 dev kits are being made. We want to ensure this tech becomes ubiquitous.

    We're getting slammed with launch response. But if you guys have questions, we'll try to answer them here shortly.

    -Chris Community Builder

  • by pbreit on 5/21/12, 3:01 PM

    This is very cool technology. The company was formerly "Ocuspec". One break-through is using very inexpensive hardware (<$5 at RadioShack) to get that sub-mm resolution. At the other end of the spectrum, they can cover a football field (and more in the future). What they are showing now is just the beginning. Kudos to rolling out with an SDK. I can inly imagine what sorts of applications developers will dream up.

  • by acgourley on 5/21/12, 4:35 PM

    Let's have a constructive comment thread. Instead conveying love or hate for it, how about listing the cases it's good and bad for.

    good

    * Fruit Ninja - made for single finger input, short gameplay

    * Pinching and zooming maps - good because it's usually a short activity

    * CAD camera interactions - good for periodic strange rotation needs or showing a client that doesn't understand the normal movement hotkeys

    * Periodic writing with pencil tool

    bad

    * Shooters - can't turn player around, gameplay too long.

    * Longterm writing or drawing - too tiring

  • by Sidnicious on 5/21/12, 5:06 PM

    I’d love to get one of these and play with it. Will the SDK and spec for talking to it be freely available after the initial batch of preorders and free dev kits?

    As a counterexample, Emoviv gave a TED talk a while ago showing off a headset that lets you control your computer with your mind. When you visit their website you discover that you can only develop with a $500 “developer edition” headset that comes with a single, nontransferrable license to use the SDK (additional licenses are $99). The consumer model of the headset only runs approved applications.

  • by pbreit on 5/21/12, 3:33 PM

  • by AndrewHampton on 5/21/12, 12:56 PM

    The first thing I thought after watching the video was how much money will they make with pre-orders on this site and how much would they have made with a kickstarter campaign?

  • by CWIZO on 5/21/12, 1:28 PM

    I really can't imagine using this for a longer period of time. Maybe as an extension of keyboard and mouse/trackpad that you would use to scroll trough pages when researching something or stuff like that. You still need a keyboard to type as far as I can see.

    That being said; I really like the idea and would love to know the tech behind it.

  • by twelvechairs on 5/21/12, 1:52 PM

    I can't see why there is so much negativity as to end use applications. I can see lots of potential for this - slideshow presentations, laptops (goodbye annoying trackpad), as well as a stylus-and-tablet replacement for designers, etc. etc.

    I think the key however the key will be in the recognition of subtler gestures. If you can show me a man using two hands to type, then moving them not far from the keyboard to activate simple gestures for navigating a document, I'd be really sold that this is for everybody.

  • by abecedarius on 5/21/12, 7:05 PM

    There's no perceptible latency in its response to gestures -- I'm very impressed assuming it's not a rigged demo. (In videos I've seen of the Kinect the software responds to a gesture only after a noticeable fraction of a second.)

  • by Someone on 5/22/12, 5:52 AM

    The cynic in me thinks:

    - I have to see it before I believe it.

    - If this works as advertised, this company will never ship the product. They will be bought within months for a huge sum of money, even if they do not want to be bought. Reason for that is:

    - Litigation, litigation! They will need deep pockets to defend themselves against patent claims.

  • by halfnelson on 5/21/12, 3:03 PM

    this isn't a concept - I got to play with the Fruit ninja demo as well as the point cloud when I interviewed there. It really is that fast.

  • by mattmanser on 5/21/12, 1:51 PM

    Already a lot of negativity here...

    To me this looks amazing and although LEAP seem to be pushing for you to get rid of your mouse/keyboard, personally I think this is probably best as an addition to it. Imagine if you had one of these built into the keyboard.

    You're typing an email need to add a location switch over to google maps, hands off keyboard as you manipulate it around to get a decent resolution, 'tap' the address bar to copy it, swipe left to switch back to the email program, tap again to paste and boom carry on typing.

    You wouldn't need to be using it all the time for it to be extremely useful.

    We keyboard jockeys sometimes forget how much faster something like this would make the less shortcut-key knowledgeable users!

  • by needle0 on 5/21/12, 2:15 PM

    Forget the desktop. With the sensor being this small, I can imagine hanging this from your neck and have gesture sensing anywhere, SixthSense-style. ( http://www.pranavmistry.com/projects/sixthsense/ )

  • by cryptide on 5/21/12, 2:00 PM

    I think i'll need to demo this unit before I purchase it. I remember getting burned in the early nineties by the power glove's cool commercial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93iDhnBcMGo

  • by kreek on 5/21/12, 8:59 PM

    Interfaces like this look cool in movies but your hands aren't 'designed' to be above your heart for an extended period of time. Now if you had something like a drafting table with a touch screen I'd be first in line.

  • by rglover on 5/21/12, 3:25 PM

    If you're an interface designer (I am), you should pre-order this thing. This will be a standard form of interaction in a couple of years and you should jump on it early and start figuring out the kinks. Too cool.

  • by mrsebastian on 5/21/12, 12:44 PM

    Better start working on my arm muscles...

  • by ChuckMcM on 5/21/12, 11:51 PM

    I'd love something that was a combination of the two, a touch surface and something like this looking 'down' toward that surface at what my hands were doing. I could make typing like motions on the touch surface for typing. But more importantly mostly my hands would be resting on something rather than hanging out in front of me.

  • by simonbarker87 on 5/21/12, 12:52 PM

    As a concept this is pretty awesome and it removes the need to touch your screen so I guess you can move the sensor closer to a more relaxed place, I can see it getting tiring pretty quickly. Just like a standing desk though I guess you just get used to it over time.

    Aside from end use issues, the tech behind this is very nice

  • by bitwize on 5/21/12, 8:49 PM

    Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo.

    Believe it when I see it live.

  • by nollidge on 5/21/12, 9:23 PM

      We asked one simple question: ‘What feel[’]s natural?’
  Two or three hundred thousand[s] lines of code later
  The Leap is a small iPod[ ]sized USB peripheral
  Do you support [w]indows?
  When do dev-kits ship[ ]
    They are in serious need of a copyeditor.

  • by c0mpute on 5/22/12, 5:18 AM

    Very interesting and looks slick (in the videos).

    So could this be a Flutter.io competitor? Flutter.io is purely software driven. I feel flutter will release a SDK/API as well at some point.

    So I think intuition suggests that whoever can execute these best, will likely succeed:

    - Rich feature set to capture gestures.

    - Simple API. Should be easy to integrate with 3rd party apps.

    - Performance.

    Leap already has an edge in that they are releasing a SDK, Flutter should follow this quickly (hopefully). Flutter makes it easy to get it to people as it is just pure software, but can they achieve capturing rich gestures?

    Exciting times.

  • by Garbage on 5/22/12, 2:30 AM

    From FAQ

    How can I get a free developer kit?

    We’re distributing thousands of kits to qualified developers, because, well, we want to see what kinds of incredible things you can all do with our technology. So wow us. Actually, register to get the SDK and a free Leap device first, and then wow us.

    Do you support windows?

    Yes! We also support native touch emulation for Windows 8.

    How about Linux?

    Linux support is on the agenda.

    When do dev-kits ship

    Depending on which batch you’re in; anywhere from 1-3 months.

    What are the tech specifications for the LEAP?

    TBD.

  • by netfire on 5/21/12, 4:34 PM

    While waving your hand in front of a monitor looks pretty cool, its definitely not going to work well for most work or extended use. Also, I think the reason touch-based devices have caught on so well is that we like the tactile feedback of dragging our finger across a defined plane.

    I'd be interested to see what you could do if you projected an image onto a work surface to make that more interactive. Seems like it would be easier to draw or manipulate 2D things on a plane rather than trying to wave your hand in 3D space. (Image Manipulation, Graphic Editing, Maps, etc)

  • by gotrythis on 5/21/12, 3:53 PM

    I've been searching all over for something like this as a potential mouse replacement to help with my finger tendinitis. I just pre-ordered. Also an interface designer, so I'm excited to see where this goes.

  • by mkramlich on 5/22/12, 3:55 AM

    So the obvious weakness here is that this will be less precise than a control system that uses direct touch such as a keyboard, mouse or touch pen. It looks fun and dramatic though.

  • by elisk on 5/21/12, 3:11 PM

    I want to play Modern Warfare 3 (or more likely BLOPS2) with that thing.

    I've already started thinking about some gestures that could be used for this, but I'm wondering, how hard it's going to be on the hand(s)? I mean with the mouse and keyboard (supposing PC gaming) the hands are resting on the table 90% of the time, with this the hand(s) will be up in the air.

    ...unless someone puts a nice glass table on top of that thing so that my hands could rest... could this work?

  • by kylebrown on 5/21/12, 5:33 PM

    Wow.. I would love to develop for this.

    I dropped out of state U. after my 3rd year (math major), but that was years ago. At my current start-up, I have recently been forced to learn much more than I was expecting to about probabilistic graphical models and curve similarity measures (gladly though; always been interested in pattern recognition).

    Anyone with a vision for this, consider dropping me a line. I might be able to help.

  • by formax on 5/21/12, 9:23 PM

    I'm calling fake or very optimistic to say the least.

    The promo video doesn't show a physical device, the price point seems ridiculously low especially for a resolution of 0.01mm. And also there is this http://bit.ly/KOqDi2 the physical hand and the point cloud don't match. It's like someone is moving their hand(s) fast to mimic the movement of the visualization.

  • by jamesrcole on 5/21/12, 3:35 PM

    Looks like it'd be a nice augment to the usual keyboard & mouse/trackpad setup (& to a touchscreen, too).

    For some tasks (e.g. changing to a diff browser tab five across from the current one) I can imagine that pointing at it would be the quickest and easiest way to switch to it.

    I can imagine it'd get a bit tiring if you were relying on it too exclusively.

  • by nextparadigms on 5/21/12, 3:54 PM

    Google should be all over this. Microsoft has Kinect, there are rumors Apple has been working on it, too, and I know Google hired the product lead from Kinect a while ago (George something), but I haven't seen much come out of that. This could be very useful for Google TV and who knows what else in the future. Better to integrate it in the Google X lab.

  • by pullo on 5/21/12, 3:24 PM

    wonder what they thought about 'gorilla arm'.also the demo did not show a way to type information. but looks really cool :))

  • by amatsukawa on 5/21/12, 11:14 PM

    They should mount this inside a keyboard, I don't want an extra dongle randomly lying on my table.

    On a completely different note, though, I wonder what the range on these things is. Could have excellent applications to robotics, I hope they don't completely close the vision outputs behind their own gesture APIs or something...

  • by powatom on 5/21/12, 3:50 PM

    It'll be interesting to see how this pans out - but I can't see it being widely adopted in the home any time soon. People who want gesture based stuff will use Kinect.

    However, I can see this being huge in the commercial market. I can easily imagine using something like this in a shop, or for presentations at work.

  • by seshagiric on 5/21/12, 12:51 PM

    Motions like they use in the fighter jet game or the shooting game (and some others) may not come naturally to everyone. In fact the one for continuous shooting specifically seems to be counter intuitive.

    But the idea of bringing such gesture based interaction to just about any device is really great.

  • by wwwtyro on 5/21/12, 2:13 PM

    At that size and price point, it could have a significant impact on mobile UI. I'm looking at you, google glass.

  • by cma on 5/21/12, 5:11 PM

    Windows 8's tabletification will possibly end up being a smart move with the introduction of this thing.

  • by jamesflorentino on 5/21/12, 7:04 PM

    This is gonna be a pain in the arm for photoshoppers. But i'm interested to see this technology grow into popularity. I can't believe we're actually having something like this in our time. 20 years ago, you can only see stuff like these in science fiction novels and movies.

  • by SkyMarshal on 5/21/12, 5:04 PM

    Love it. I was just wishing for this recently [1].

    Now they just gotta turn it into a protocol and build it into monitors.

    1. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3988700

  • by honzacz on 5/22/12, 9:55 AM

    Add some weight bracelets on your wrists and work out while using your computer:)

  • by postscapes1 on 5/22/12, 12:24 PM

    Surprised by the negative reactions here. If Kinect has shown us anything it is this thing will be used for a host of things not shown in their demo videos. Robots, Interactive Art, etc,

  • by auzieo on 5/21/12, 8:27 PM

    ChrisFornof: What is the normal workflow after filling the dev kit application form? I got redirected to the homepage with no confirmation step or email. I wouldn't want to double-apply.

  • by blake8086 on 5/21/12, 5:33 PM

    Well I just pre-ordered one and applied for the dev kit. I don't even have a specific plan for this yet, but I think the 3-d object scanning ability alone makes this worth it.

  • by sravfeyn on 5/21/12, 1:42 PM

    That looks like Tony Stark's interface, except this is in 2D.

  • by natemartin on 5/21/12, 6:25 PM

    Did anyone get an email confirmation after applying for the dev kit? After I hit the button, it reloaded to the home page, and I haven't seen any emails.

  • by EzGraphs on 5/21/12, 6:48 PM

    Another interesting application not mentioned yet is 3d scanning... and their site mentions 3d modeling work as the initial motivation for the product.

  • by squarecat on 5/21/12, 7:31 PM

    We're almost there: http://youtubedoubler.com/49ni (LEAP vs Minority Report)

  • by dfgonzalez on 5/25/12, 6:22 PM

    I already want this as a captcha solution:

    Say 3 with your fingers to prove you are not a robot.

  • by ___Calv_Dee___ on 5/21/12, 1:33 PM

    No SDK love for Canadian developers?

  • by dmbarbour on 5/23/12, 10:09 PM

    I see a lot of potential for a new class of musical instruments based on waving your hands.

  • by friggeri on 5/21/12, 1:38 PM

    I absolutely love the concept of using something akin to chopsticks to manipulate data.

  • by nico_h on 5/22/12, 1:50 PM

    Beside Google Maps and fruit ninja, what are the apps demoed in the video ?

  • by mikelbring on 5/22/12, 6:14 AM

    First thing that came to my mind was Tony Stark's computer.

  • by username3 on 5/21/12, 2:36 PM

    Does this have no lag or is that a concept video?

  • by zooey on 5/22/12, 1:43 PM

    not good...it's tiring to not rest your fingers on a surface. your muscles need to rest, your fingers need to touch.

  • by saijanai on 5/21/12, 6:56 PM

    signing and finger spelling. If it can be made portable, it is a HUGE breakthrough for certain people.

  • by cbr on 5/22/12, 2:43 AM

    This looks awesome, but very tiring.

  • by joshu on 5/21/12, 6:47 PM

    Structured light?

  • by CubicleNinjas on 5/21/12, 6:21 PM

    I'm happy that the team took their passion to execute one something so effectively.

    But not all ideas are good. It violates Fitt's law by placing all user interaction within a vertical band next to your computer. This is very uncomfortable and decreases the usefulness for most applications (because missing the interaction band is likely).

    If these were wireless gloves that I could more easily (with my arms in any location) then I'd love this.