by lsferreira42 on 3/17/24, 4:39 PM with 129 comments
by sxp on 3/17/24, 6:21 PM
- PICO-8's 3x5 font with support for programming characters: https://www.lexaloffle.com/pico-8.php?page=faq
- Ken Perlin has an RGB stripe subpixel font. Unfortunately, the original page uses Java so I can't access it, but https://www.fastcompany.com/1662778/the-worlds-smallest-legi... has more info.
- Dotsies if you're willing to try very strange encodings: https://dotsies.org/
- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33127419 has more examples.
by hinkley on 3/17/24, 7:34 PM
We were getting lots of clipping of text and I asserted that even a couple more characters on the screen would improve people’s abilities to guess what the entire phrase was. You can derail momentum in project management meetings by having people ask what something says repeatedly. Seen it happen, it’s dumb and we can fix it.
So it came down to a shootout. We put five fonts on a projector screen, at multiple font sizes, stood everyone against the back wall of the fairly average sized meeting room (maybe 70th percentile), and had them vote.
Verdana 13pt won for legibility, even over some of the 14 pt fonts. It also got more characters per inch, so win win. Something in the range of 5-10%.
Then corporate made us change it back because their flagship app used a different font and they wanted them to match. Which made no goddamned sense because they weren’t even used together.
by gitgud on 3/17/24, 6:28 PM
by berkes on 3/18/24, 9:33 AM
It's truly impressive feat to get it this small. I used to do texts like this, often manually, pixel by pixel. For websites and games, it was all the rage back in late nineties early 2000s.
But only now I start to truly understand,by experiencing first-hand, why accessibility matters. This font is awesome, but terrible for any kind of accessibility.
by archargelod on 3/18/24, 3:05 AM
While pc version has extensive mod support, console ports lack necessary Lua api. So the only way I came up with to implement this - is to draw additional info on the sprite textures. And sprites are tiny - 32x32 pixels. Ok, I can't put a lot of text in such small space, but maybe I can fit item name and then add some simple 8x8 icons for effects.
I started searching for a good font I can use, but ultimately most of the 3x4 and 3x5 fonts I tried had one issue - they're almost unreadable if the background color is not absolute negative of font color. I could've put an opaque black background behind text, but that would hide more art than necessary and even look somewhat hideous.
While trying one font after other I found gremlin-3x6[1], it's only 2 pixels higher, but 5-10x easier to read. And it's under public domain license.
Ok I mostly don't care about height, but width is still an issue - almost all item names exceed 32 pixels and have to wrap around on second line and some need a third line. That I absolutely do not want.
I had an idea - If I can't shrink letters to less than 3 pixels, I can remove space between them. Wouldn't it make harder to read? Not unless all letters have different colors! That also solves the problem when background matches the color of font!
[0] - https://codeberg.org/Archargelod/isaac-extended-icons-mod [1] - https://fontstruct.com/fontstructions/show/1488093/gremlin-3...
by 3rd3 on 3/17/24, 7:25 PM
by userbinator on 3/17/24, 7:59 PM
by samatman on 3/17/24, 7:30 PM
I could learn to read this. I can kinda-sorta make out the example, because I already know the Declaration of Independence. Is it readable the way, say, this text is? Or the PICO-8 font? No.
by baking on 3/17/24, 5:42 PM
by neverokay on 3/17/24, 7:07 PM
by johnklos on 3/17/24, 5:56 PM
(starts thinking in Z80...)
by yosito on 3/18/24, 6:48 AM
by dsp_person on 3/18/24, 12:04 AM
by rhelz on 3/18/24, 9:28 PM
If you are having trouble with it, try this: "Use the force!!" By which I mean, forget that its written in a very small font, don't go looking for the individual pixels, but just relax and read like any other text. Don't look at the letters, look at the words. Your brain fill in the details for you.
by Uptrenda on 3/19/24, 11:51 AM
Font-rendering limitations also play out in UIs, too. VS Code has a feature where the side-bar can become something like a map of the code document. It doesn't actually show the code though because there isn't the room. But could a font like this show more of the code? Letting you quickly navigate a large module. I'm sure there are more use-cases for this because displaying text is so fundamental to computing.
by globular-toast on 3/18/24, 10:47 AM
Makes me wonder whether some languages are better at this than others. French, for example, contains some redundancy in its grammar as you have to write pronouns and write the conjugated verb. Spanish gets rid of the redundant pronoun. So is French trading longer sentences for better readability? I wonder what natural language can have the shittiest font?
by btbuildem on 3/18/24, 3:50 AM
Nice work! The uppercase is surprisingly readable -- some glyphs don't look like you'd first think they should, but that makes them stand out from the ones they'd otherwise be easily confused with.
by dsp_person on 3/17/24, 7:41 PM
So did this font exist all along and was simply discovered?
And same goes for everything we create, but just in higher dimensions??
by ddingus on 3/18/24, 2:48 AM
Neat!
The lower case one takes a lot more adjustment. I did end up reading it fairly well, but never with the ease of the uppercase font.
by nickdothutton on 3/17/24, 5:47 PM
by JetSetIlly on 3/18/24, 4:32 PM
I've used glyphs as small as 4x5 but I've struggled to come up with anything smaller for most characters.
Here's an example of a full text adventure for the 2600 if anyone's interested https://github.com/JetSetIlly/Adventureland-2600
Better or worse with an even smaller font? I'm not sure.
by makmanalp on 3/18/24, 4:01 AM
by msarchet on 3/17/24, 5:25 PM
by antirez on 3/18/24, 9:08 AM
by petabyt on 3/20/24, 8:33 AM
by pavl on 3/17/24, 7:25 PM
by snowpid on 3/17/24, 6:35 PM
by simonkagedal on 3/18/24, 7:02 PM
by MithrilTuxedo on 3/18/24, 2:59 AM
by zelphirkalt on 3/18/24, 9:35 AM
I find one of the things a repository of a font should do is to put pictures of how this thing looks quite far up in the readme, so that I can quickly see, whether that is something for me or not.
by croemer on 3/17/24, 11:29 PM
by Anotheroneagain on 3/17/24, 6:47 PM
by ramijames on 3/17/24, 10:32 PM
by junon on 3/17/24, 7:42 PM
by dougmwne on 3/17/24, 7:44 PM
My parents had a laser printer for their business. I realized that it had a very high DPI and also very little ink bleed. I started printing whole books I downloaded at the smallest font size that I could managed to still read, just a few point. I removed line breaks and printed out whole books on a page or two. I found it incredible how much tiny text I could fit on a page.
In class I would read with a little half folded sheet of paper hidden in a notebook. Sci-fi, Russian lit, biographies, classics. I was never caught, but it’s bizarre to think back that I was reading Crime and Punishment while the rest of the class was learning fake American history propaganda.
by FergusArgyll on 3/17/24, 5:36 PM
by wkat4242 on 3/17/24, 6:44 PM
by mgaunard on 3/17/24, 7:17 PM
by hulitu on 3/17/24, 7:05 PM
Readable by who ?
by hammock on 3/17/24, 10:09 PM
*Roman alphabet