by mcone on 2/21/24, 3:07 AM with 190 comments
by spking on 2/21/24, 3:22 AM
by alkonaut on 2/21/24, 9:58 AM
The worst offenders aren't large appliances, it's the cheap crap. If a store sells me an electric toothbrush for $79 and it breaks after a month shouln't just be required to replace it, it has to be worse than that to make products where even 1/1000 fail. And the result of such action would be that electric tooth brushes soon cost $200 instead of $79. But that's a good thing.
When I browse appliances or electronics, I want to know the lifespan. Not just the warranty. I want to know how long people actually use this particular product. And it can't just be based on some Amazon review system, it needs to be reliable and cover every seller. Like car mileage I need to have a decent idea about what to expect. And even if just 10% of product have this rating - that's also a good thing. It would mean less churn because manufacturers would be reluctant to replace an officially labeled product with a new one.
So we'd have longer lasting, rarely replaced models, more expensive products. Which is what we need.
by magicalhippo on 2/21/24, 4:08 AM
It covers anything that's not a wear-item breaking due to normal use. The shop who sold it has the burden of proof in case they want to claim it's been exposed to non-normal usage.
The shop has the right to try to repair the damage, but after two times (for the same issue), you have the right to get your money back.
Now surviving 5 years doesn't mean the thing will last 20. But it should at least keep the crap away.
by moandcompany on 2/21/24, 3:54 AM
The "buy-it-for-life" brands ran into this problem because once you sell someone the classic product, they aren't going to sell another one unless it's to another (new) customer or purchased as a gift for someone by their existing loyal customer. So then they start entering into new product areas and eventually end up compromising quality.
As other have mentioned, this is becoming particularly annoying with home appliances and cars. "They don't make them like they used to" are true words.
by ptek on 2/21/24, 4:22 AM
Who wants some iFridge/iOven when the equipment made in the 60s was built to survive two zombies apocalypse and one nuclear war and won't connect to the internet for a firmware update.
Also the CIA can't hack your fridge so you get salmonella from your chicken because they have access to your shopping patterns from the super market.
by iio7 on 2/21/24, 4:45 AM
He has mentioned that they have software that can calculate the average lifespan of the finished product by entering the different components that goes into the product (like this piece has this amount of iron, this amount of tin, etc).
Based upon this the software can calculate the lifespan very precisely and determine if they have made it "too good". If it's too good the quality is decreased on purpose in order to reduce the lifespan such that people will buy more. Other testing goes into the equation as well, but enough data has been collected over the years that it can be calculated/simulated.
by theyeenzbeanz on 2/21/24, 3:27 AM
The original one had what looked like a custom/in house engineered motor with a solid structure and beefy battery. The new one had those cheap toy motors that cost a few pennies each along with a flimsy frame and tiny battery to match.
by stdbrouw on 2/21/24, 10:09 AM
So, unless she is lying, there is actually no story?
by lettergram on 2/21/24, 3:54 AM
My father was a tool maker (top of his profession, top shop at Molex for a time). He and everyone he knew had such pride in their work. They also knew who would use their products. They cared about the quality and worked hard to deliver. It was a personal pride thing, as much as anything else.
When you export manufacturing, people don’t know who they’re building for. Nor does near slave labor in some places create quality.
Not to mention, companies are trying to maximize profit. To contrast, the owner of molex at one point heard my dad needed a surgery. He came down on the shop floor, called him over and sent my dad (and our family) to the Mayo Clinic for 2 weeks to have the surgery done (all expenses paid). It wasn’t for profit, it was for a good business.
by frellus on 2/21/24, 4:35 AM
On the LG side, I feel like the quality has really gone downhill over the years. I had a GE washer which gave me 13 years of life -- not bad for $400. I replaced it with an LG now and already regretting it -- complicated controls which seem somewhat redundant, more electronics instead of just knobs to turn.
Also bought an LG microwave. Kept blowing my circuit (and yes, it was rated for 15A and I have 20A circuits). Replaced with smaller model, still Chinese garbage, but less complicated. It's worked perfectly.
by jaimex2 on 2/21/24, 4:03 AM
I recently bought the Gaggia Classic Pro coffee machine for this very reason. You can get into and fix anything in this machine in under 5 minutes.
by api_or_ipa on 2/21/24, 6:11 PM
Labor used to be relatively more abundant compared to capital. In these conditions, servicing an older machine makes economic sense.
With capital becoming relatively cheap compared to labor, servicing becomes more expensive. It then becomes cheaper to simply replace an appliance, utilizing efficiencies of scale unlocked on the factory floor though greater automation. Repairmen don’t enjoy the same efficiency gains because diagnosing and repairing an issue is still fundamentally a manual process.
by ccorcos on 2/21/24, 6:25 AM
It’s classic greenwashing - a more efficient fridge is obviously better, right? Except they use extremely thin oil so it dies in a few years.
Another interesting narrative is how Segway shut down the production of their scooter because they were so well made that they weren’t selling enough! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23621279
It’s a weird world and I wish I could just have my cake and eat it too.
by poulsbohemian on 2/21/24, 7:16 PM
And then there's Bosch, etc... now, I'd like to buy a Bosch, but my current partner doesn't want to spend the money, she likes buying outlet / second-hand / feeling like she got a deal, which is a problem. But - even the top end consumer Bosch is relatively small and I'm not sure the plastic bits are any more durable. I do like the dual compressor system though.
And then there's dishwashers... oh Maytag, how you've fallen thanks to VC/ PE...
by Freedom2 on 2/21/24, 6:27 AM
by wtcactus on 2/21/24, 9:27 AM
The drier died after 3 years. Everything else worked by it didn't heat, so, it didn't dry.
I called someone to try to fix it, and they said the heat pump was gone and that they see a lot of that. He advised me to buy one that used the old technology of heating the air through an electric resistance. According to the repairman, those are way more reliable (problem is that, while I can live with the increased energy consumption, they need an external exhaust for the moisture).
by musicale on 2/22/24, 7:04 AM
Smart toaster ovens may change that equation a bit, both in terms of not burning your toast (due to cameras and various sensors and control systems) and also with even more rapidly accelerated obsolescence as apps and cloud services stop working.
by godzillabrennus on 2/21/24, 3:21 AM
by egberts1 on 2/21/24, 6:25 PM
They have been given cancer!
Thank God for American Hpme Warranty, it actually does pay at least two-fold over 5-year worth of its premium costs.
This is not a shill but a testimony of the ridiculous lifespan of dishwasher, refrigerators, stove, garbage disposals, washing machines, dryer, and air conditioner condensor unit.
EDIT: and a water heater. House was built in 1990.
by fhe on 2/21/24, 3:59 AM
by Clubber on 2/21/24, 3:20 PM
by perfunctory on 2/21/24, 10:45 AM
by notorandit on 2/21/24, 11:07 AM
by j45 on 2/21/24, 4:12 AM
The induction stove that boils water in 40 seconds?
by diogenescynic on 2/21/24, 3:46 AM
by smitty1e on 2/21/24, 5:15 AM
by therealdkz on 2/21/24, 3:43 AM
by raziel2701 on 2/21/24, 3:29 AM
by quatrefoil on 2/21/24, 4:01 AM
This day and age, the knowledge is at our fingertips. But when shopping, we select the appliance with the most futuristic LCD and that plugs into Alexa to notify us that the laundry is done...
by rglover on 2/21/24, 4:37 AM