from Hacker News

Rotten Apple

by schalkneethling on 2/20/24, 12:27 PM with 214 comments

  • by rickdeckard on 2/20/24, 1:01 PM

    Good post, but a bit turbulent to read:

    "If you’ve ever built a web app, then your users will suffer. Remember, it’s a world wide web, including the European Union."

    "Create a PDF with the following information:"

    (me, reading that paragraph: '...what? why?')

    --

    [Edit]: I concluded from the bullet-list on why that is requested, but it would help to introduce that intention before instructing me to do something

  • by everydaypanos on 2/20/24, 1:01 PM

    Why Safari can’t just launch from a Home Screen bookmark even if the user has chosen another “default browser”?

    PWAs are already a separate “island” of storage and share nothing with Safari App…

    Microsoft does it all the time with Edge on Windows.

  • by Angostura on 2/20/24, 12:54 PM

    A lot of this article appears to be based on the belief that the security architecture of iOS and MacOS are identical. This seems ... an unlikely assumption

  • by dwighttk on 2/20/24, 1:39 PM

    Sure this situation already exists on Mac OS but that is a much smaller user base and there are plenty of alternatives where you can go and install arbitrary software.

    I deal with weird stuff my parents have installed on their Macs every time I visit… so far I haven’t had to do that with their phones. If I wanted them to use a Firefox browser engine on their phone I’d get them an Android.

  • by nuker on 2/20/24, 2:15 PM

    Get ready for “This website works in Chrome only. Please install Chrome on your iPhone”. This will be the day Google has won the Internet.

  • by algesten on 2/20/24, 1:14 PM

    Call me old fashioned, but I prefer it when web pages open in a web browser and don't pretend to be native apps.

  • by wouldbecouldbe on 2/20/24, 1:19 PM

    What is really fun about working with Apple is their Appstore connect platform is buggy & slow as hell.

    Few times I couldn't submit an app because of it.

    Every time I submit a bug, there first reaction is try it on safari; most of time it was server issues so it didn't resolve it. But sometimes it actually did where I didnt expect it.

  • by monkin on 2/20/24, 1:44 PM

    I wonder how the EU will respond when high-ranking politicians fall victim to third-party app store scams or experience significant data leaks exploited through other browsers. Given that they're not particularly tech-savvy, it raises questions about their preparedness for such situations, and who they will blame for it.

  • by christkv on 2/20/24, 1:34 PM

    I don’t understands why this would be such a security issue other browsers are sandboxed. PWA would just dispatch to the chosen browser with whatever parameters are passed along and it would be up to that browser to do the right thing. How would this be a security risk worse than the current existing setup with deep links?

  • by xandrius on 2/20/24, 1:02 PM

    It's a shame, Apple is in a place to be the leader and decent, instead it decides not to be both.

  • by sneak on 2/20/24, 1:17 PM

    Competition is good. This isn’t a new thing for Apple, however - even when Jobs was alive, he personally conspired with Google, Adobe, Intel, Intuit, Pixar, Lucasfilm and eBay to price-fix wages lower than a normal competitive market would allow.

    When the companies reached a settlement over it, the judge threw it out because it was so hilariously low compared to the three billion dollars that these companies stole from their employees.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust...

    This isn’t some new development. Apple has long been without a moral compass, even when Jobs was at the helm. It continues today.

  • by Keyframe on 2/20/24, 1:26 PM

    I have an ipad through which I subscribed for Apple arcade. I don't use it / play at all on it and there was recently an email that price is going up. Sure, I'll just cancel subscription I said. I don't have my ipad on me, nor any other apple device (I don't use them anymore), nor windows. I have linux machines and android phone. Ok, so how do I cancel subscription? icloud login? no. subscription place of sorts? it wants me to install itunes, which I can't.. ok, no. After googling around, turns out there's actually no way except to call Apple in USA or wherever. I'll just wait a week untill I get a hold of my iPad and Apple won't be seeing my money for a long time. Disgraceful to say the least.

  • by mouzogu on 2/20/24, 12:55 PM

    fighting to sustain a monopoly

    it indicates to me a lack of ideas about the future

    reacting rather than preparing

  • by bluesign on 2/20/24, 1:44 PM

    I think the main issue is attribution. Especially when a lot of stuff breaks even on web, when you change the browser.

    Imagine I have some PWA at home screen now, working with Safari engine. I changed my browser to Chrome, let's say it stopped working. 90% of the users will blame Apple software update instead of the Chrome choice.

  • by neximo64 on 2/20/24, 1:37 PM

    What tarnish to the brand. What a gamble.

  • by anon373839 on 2/20/24, 1:50 PM

    The best thing everyone can do is to keep making noise and Streisand Effect the hell out of this. Make Apple’s arrogance cost them something. Don’t just sit by quietly while they dismantle the future of computing to protect their revenue streams.

  • by robenkleene on 2/20/24, 1:33 PM

    This is a terrible argument:

    > You can read Apple’s announcement on being forced to comply but as you do you so, I’d like you to remember one thing: every nightmare scenario they describe for the security of users in the EU is exactly what currently happens on Macs everywhere in the world.

    There's 1.5 billion iPhone users vs 100 million Mac users, Apple believes that at least part of the reason for that difference is the security model of iOS. E.g., arguably the largest changes Apple has made to the Mac since introducing the iPhone is implementing security measures based on iOS.

  • by janandonly on 2/20/24, 1:24 PM

    If I want my PWA to continue working, can I solve this by selecting "country" -> "UK" or "USA" ?

  • by s1k3s on 2/20/24, 1:59 PM

    > risks from installing software that compromises system integrity with malware or other malicious code

    Sorry, what? Are they implying that iPhone's security isn't built inside the OS itself, but somehow depends on having every app pass their 30 second review on the store? That doesn't seem right.

    > exposure to illicit, objectionable, and harmful content due to lower content and moderation standards, and increased risks of scams, fraud, and abuse

    Like the deepfake video ads of politicians trying to sell me crypto that I constantly see on YouTube or Meta's apps, all coming from the official store?

  • by pcdoodle on 2/20/24, 1:12 PM

    Apple is so full of shit (I'm a user BTW).

    We're getting to the point where browsers can do really cool things and they're scared of losing their 30% mafia like tax.

    It's the browser wars all over again.

  • by lobito14 on 2/21/24, 7:02 AM

    I've never had an Apple product and I never will. I hate their fan base, shallow virtue signaling, and business model.

  • by everyone on 2/20/24, 1:44 PM

    Good, hopefully even less people will buy apple shit.

  • by apples_oranges on 2/20/24, 1:36 PM

    Perhaps we have reached peak Apple. I was a fanboy for a long time but when USB-C came to the iPhone something clicked for me. There was no good reason except money making why they didn't do it sooner. Perhaps the magic spell is broken. Yes, their computers may be good, but maybe the company that makes them, isn't.

  • by ubermonkey on 2/20/24, 2:20 PM

    Ah, another article on HN complaining about Apple. Groundbreaking!

  • by kalyantm on 2/20/24, 12:58 PM

    Now they've stopped supporting PWAs in Europe - dark times for web indeed...

  • by zitterbewegung on 2/20/24, 1:22 PM

    Why is it a bad response from Apple to disable a feature that they deem as a security risk if you allow for alternative browser engines?

    Browsers represent a significant attack surface since they can run code and also transmit data across the network. So when they are allowed to exist now Apple has either two options. One is to do the simple way and remove progressive web apps or extensively test and perform security analysis on all of the new browser engines.

    A better compromise would be to make new browser engines have extensive testing by the developer themselves. So, what's the point ? It feels similar to the GDPR where I get a popup and I click disallow all cookies except for essential ones.

    This seems the best way to actually implement the directive because it is not only low effort but most secure. We would have a better compromise for testing to be done by the browser engine developer or Apple but its more likely security holes would fall through.

  • by thimp on 2/20/24, 1:06 PM

    Ah yes, the poor end users suffering and the security being bullshit.

    I really can't wait to clean the first malicious browser out of a relative's iPhone and try and unsubscribe from Tim Sweeny's app store with his own 30% margin to spend on blackjack and hookers.

    The new status quo will be worse than the old one.

  • by frizlab on 2/20/24, 1:39 PM

    > Instead of graciously acknowledging that this is what’s best for users, Apple are throwing a tantrum.

    I’m a user and a developer and I’m convinced this is not what’s best for users.

  • by sgt on 2/20/24, 1:31 PM

    > I’m going to get a lot of emails from confused users wondering why their app is broken, now opening in a regular browser window.

    Newsflash incoming for you.. Just about none of your users will (1) care (2) used the "PWA" in the first place.

    It's really not that common to add apps to the home screen. Among very technical users, it's a fair bit more common though.