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Linus Torvalds flames Google kernel contributor over filesystem suggestion

by alexcroox on 1/30/24, 4:17 PM with 60 comments

• by Amorymeltzer on 1/30/24, 6:17 PM

  I really suggest looking at the reply: <https://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/2401.3/04254.html>

  I know nothing about what they're talking, but the response appears reasonable and mature, seems to engage in the substantive issues without responding to the anger/flaming, and looks like it intends to de-escalate and move forward. Torvalds' reply to that is more measured <https://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/2401.3/04260.html>.

  There's a step back in tone a few replies later, but if you go through the next dozen or two messages over the next couple of days, it seems like things go a totally different path than might be expected from the linked submission.

  Anyway, I thought it was worth a perusal. Good example of how to respond to something like that.

• by AndrewDucker on 1/30/24, 6:08 PM

  There is value in demonstrating anger. It makes it clear that the person has crossed a line beyond "Made an understandable mistake." and entered the "Doing things which are beyond what is tolerated in this space."

  And in this case, where the person has deliberately, repeatedly, tried to use code they don't understand, it makes it clear that they need to either learn enough to be sensible on the topic, or go away and not come back.

• by onyxringer on 1/30/24, 6:00 PM

  Oh noeh, but the feels. Is anyone thinking about the feels?

  Don't cry. The contributor will be fine. If you get flamed by Linus you've already earned a badge of a high profile developer. And even best of us sometimes do something stupid and a little direct cold shower is not going to hurt anyone. Linus is not bulling people, doesn't target them for no reason, doesn't do sneaky politics to undermine people, etc.

• by krmboya on 1/30/24, 5:51 PM

  I like someone that direct and opinionated leading something as critical as the Linux kernel.

  That message wasn't just for Steven, but for everyone else who contributes to this critical piece of software we rely on. It's usually very easy for standards to slip, so it requires constant resistance in the opposite direction

• by lucasyvas on 1/30/24, 5:44 PM

  He's been better in recent memory but this definitely recedes a bit into his prior unhinged territory. Good luck, Steven, wherever you are.

• by _xerces_ on 1/30/24, 5:53 PM

  I would take it as a point of pride to be on the receiving end of one of Linus' rants. If I have his attention and he is even looking at something I wrote, it lets me know I made it :)

• by ChrisArchitect on 1/30/24, 6:24 PM

  [dupe]

  News from a few days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39172487

• by saltylicorice on 1/30/24, 6:44 PM

  Steven Rostedt has a long history of kernel contributions before joining Google and is likely better known for those.

• by DiggyJohnson on 1/30/24, 6:07 PM

  This doesn't seem like a major problem. If anything it's direct, and a professional should be able to recognize that Linus effing Torvalds has tone problems when it comes to this subject.

• by thrillgore on 1/30/24, 5:58 PM

  This is very uncharacteristic of the direction Linus was heading. Damn, Steven must have seriously fucked up.

  >You copied that function without understanding why it does what it does, and as a result your code IS GARBAGE. AGAIN.

  I generally believe in positivity but if I saw this as his direct report I'd move him to another project ASAP to get scrutiny on his code quality.

• by slau on 1/30/24, 5:38 PM

  This is on the milder end of the spectrum when it comes to Torvalds’ flames. And I’d argue it’s not entirely undeserved.

• by __turbobrew__ on 1/30/24, 8:04 PM

  I take it as a badge of honour for being flamed by Theo de Raadt. If you are being flamed it means that you are doing something worth engaging with. Take it with a grain of salt and cut through the negativity to find valid criticisms which help you grow.

• by nunez on 1/30/24, 11:09 PM

  Print this out and frame it! This is a really good Linus rant!

• by anon-sre-srm on 1/31/24, 5:38 AM

  Look at all of the apologists here. Unconstructive, unprofessional, bully behavior is unnecessary, but the cult defers to Herr Leader.

• by adastra22 on 1/30/24, 6:11 PM

  The amount of support give by other posters here for Linus’ insane antisocial behavior is crazy.

  I would never, ever contribute upstream to Linux so long as Linus is involved. My time is too valuable to deal with his BS.

  He should realize the hostile environment he creates drives away contributors.

• by 2OEH8eoCRo0 on 1/30/24, 5:56 PM

  They should be flamed. As a Google kernel contributor they aren't a noob and they should know better.

• by s-xyz on 1/30/24, 7:25 PM

  Amazing and without the emotional part, very relatable arguments that I have seen also in other domains.

• by coolThingsFirst on 1/30/24, 8:06 PM

  How hard is nowadays getting some code merged in the kernel?

• by youngtaff on 1/30/24, 6:20 PM

  Why f#ck would anyone ever want to contribute to the Linux kernel when you’re in danger of being on the receiving end of a rant like that…

• by WhackyIdeas on 1/30/24, 5:39 PM

  At least the maintainer gets paid handsomely to put up with that kind crap. Otherwise, I think I would throttle Linus through the screen.