from Hacker News

Cloudflare lays off new hires

by KyleSanderson on 1/12/24, 12:38 AM with 254 comments

  • by aestetix on 1/12/24, 2:19 AM

    I don't understand why Cloudflare can't just be honest and say the reason she got laid off, instead of making up some garbage about her performance. That was her main complaint, and I side with her completely. She was not asking to keep her job, or asking unreasonable questions. If they just explained that it was because the company overhired, or because they needed to reduce costs to keep the company afloat, that would have been fine.

    What matters here is trust. I'm glad she posted the video because it really sheds a light on awful corporate American Big Tech practices. Everyone who is considering working at Cloudflare or similar in the future will see how they treated her, and let that factor into their own decisions.

    And I see some sexist comments about her being "emotional." If I were in the same position, I'd be pretty fucking pissed off too. I think she has every right to be angry, and these faceless corporate drones feeding her an empty list of platitudes make it worse.

    Edit: my comment is in response to the Tiktok video, which isn't directly linked: https://www.tiktok.com/@brittanypeachhh/video/73223013131344...

  • by nlh on 1/12/24, 3:06 AM

    Sorry, I am likely missing some context here -- I didn't watch the video that's apparently floating around I'm just reacting to this imgur/LinkedIn post.

    This sounds like a salesperson was let go (or several salespeople). I don't see anything about a layoff.

    THE deal in lower-level sales (and an AE is lower-level sales) is that the jobs are fleeting and ruthlessly performance-based. People are hired and fired all the time. Sometimes you're let go before you've even made it out of training. Sometimes you're let go if you miss a single week's quotas. It can be quite vicious.

    I am not in sales, am not good at it, nor do I ever want to be in that world, but everyone's I've spoken to who is says they know this is how it works and this is the deal, and therefore there aren't (or shouldn't be) hard feelings if you're cut from the team.

    Please correct me if I've missed something!

  • by KyleSanderson on 1/12/24, 12:38 AM

  • by neom on 1/12/24, 1:47 AM

    Good for her for saying all the quiet parts out loud. Great post. I'm a big Matthew Prince fan, a big CloudFlare fan, and a shareholder. Sadly, this rubs me the wrong way...

  • by system2 on 1/12/24, 2:09 AM

    How many were laid off? I can't find an article online about the layoffs. Do we only have her word or something I missed? Cloudflare stock doesn't show any movement. Usually, I see a big dip when something like this happens.

    I saw the video posted here and all I see is an intern getting fired. Is it something unusual? I know companies with less than 50 employees hiring and firing a bunch of people every month. For Cloudflare to fire 2 new employees, is it too much?

    The video from the other reply: https://twitter.com/BowTiedPassport/status/17451497589921956...

  • by grepfru_it on 1/12/24, 1:56 AM

    Hey this is very similar to my story 2 years ago! (different company) It's only going to get worse, but protip: if you don't want to deal with the interview circuit like I did, set your salary expectations hilariously low and at least you will still collect income.

    Good luck to everyone in our shoes!

  • by NicoJuicy on 1/12/24, 2:12 AM

    This seems to be consistent to what was mentioned last year ( May 2023 ) on investor day.

    https://softwarestackinvesting.com/cloudflare-net-q2-2023-ea... section: profitability

    The idea, a year ago, was to replace underperformers in sales by average performers, this impacted ~ 100 people early 2023.

    Fast forward today, this seems to impact those that were expecting to reach average sales, they probably were also underperforming ( just a educated guess).

    I just hope the metric is fair, but I wouldn't expect otherwise from Cloudflare.

    Edit: One of the videos posted here, said she didn't have a single sale and most of the new hires were done ~ 1 year ago...

  • by neilv on 1/12/24, 3:20 AM

    Looked like the man on the video that aestetix linked [1], of the termination call, was a director. I hope he was one of the people who decided on the layoffs, or decided who would be laid off.

    IMHO, the person's manager should've also been on the call, even if it was 100% out of their hands. (Unless the immediate manager was laid off at the same time.) A manager is responsible for the people reporting to them, and this is a failure.

    [1] https://www.tiktok.com/@brittanypeachhh/video/73223013131344...

  • by Klonoar on 1/12/24, 2:00 AM

    Discord and some other companies also appear to be doing layoffs, at this point just do a megathread.

    Wonder why they all announce today.

  • by PeterCorless on 1/12/24, 7:15 AM

    A video from someone laid off today; seems to be a repost from TikTok user @alexyardigans:

    https://x.com/SMB_Attorney/status/1745609324544536778?s=20

  • by neilv on 1/12/24, 3:40 AM

    This HN post is already buried off the front page (199 points, 2 hours, 163 comments).

  • by skywhopper on 1/12/24, 1:41 AM

    I hate this so much. I once worked at a place that did a layoff and caught a person who’d been a two-time intern and had just been hired out of college that same week. There’s no reason the company couldn’t have re-assigned her elsewhere. She’d already proven her value! What a waste to throw away the opportunity for a known-good new hire who could ramp up quickly, and what a horrible thing to inflict on someone just out of school. I know the execs deciding to do the layoffs don’t care about those details but at some level someone made the decision to pick this person over someone else. What monsters these corporations force us to become to each other.

  • by satisfice on 1/13/24, 1:10 AM

    Don’t make these videos, folks. You are just going to make the next employer afraid to hire you. There is no upside.

    Employers don’t owe you any explanations. Just walk away.

    If you have a legal argument, hire a lawyer and do it right. Arguing with the people tasked with telling you this news is like yelling at a wall that is falling on you. It’s useless and pathetic.

    Meanwhile, I think the HR people did pretty well.

  • by m0llusk on 1/12/24, 1:22 AM

    Sales teams are often the first and hardest hit. In theory this makes sense, but it can also completely hobble the whole company.

  • by irjustin on 1/12/24, 2:07 AM

    Possibly stupid question - why are so many companies laying off?

    According to Wallstreet, the majority of the recession scare isn't a scare. Inflation, while not fully at target, is getting better. Unemployment is at an all time low.

    So many companies are laying off like it's the worst times ahead. Obviously layoffs aren't taken lightly so there must be some internal signals that really push them to take these measures.

    It just seems like Feds+WallStreet vs companies actions are at odds with each other?

  • by sneed_chucker on 1/12/24, 1:03 AM

    I wonder if the US will ever get first-world tier labor laws that prevent companies from screwing people over like this.

    Doesn't seem likely any time soon, but it's so insane how healthcare and everything is tied to an employer and in most places they can just fire you on a whim and not offer severance or anything.

  • by NicoJuicy on 1/12/24, 1:56 AM

    This is something that was mentioned a year ago about the sales team ( at investor day ~ May 2023)

    A year ago, underperformers were let go. Some people had almost no sales versus other peers in sales. There was the first round of layoffs that Cloudflare had.

    They ( Cloudflare) expected to replace those underperformers with people that were let go of other tech companies. Since, if they could replace underperformers with average sales, profits would greatly increase.

    Those that were let go, were part of those new hires. Either they were underperforming ( which would be the reason to be acquired to replace in the first place) or something did not go as expected. I expect the former.

    Read the transcript here, in the section of "Profitability":

    https://softwarestackinvesting.com/cloudflare-net-q2-2023-ea...

    I just hope the metric is fair, but I wouldn't expect otherwise from Cloudflare.

    One of the videos posted here, said she didn't have a single sale and most of the new hires were done ~ 1 year ago...

  • by apimade on 1/12/24, 1:51 AM

    Explain why eastdakota was so quiet in yesterday’s Cloudflare thread.

  • by no_time on 1/12/24, 6:13 AM

    >(…) if you want to build. better internet and world, start with your employees and treat them with respect

    Ironic coming from someone who works for a 3 letter front company operating the largest (known) MiTM attack in the history of the internet.

    A better internet and world would come about if CF ceased all operations.