from Hacker News

This UN vote shows how completely isolated we are from world opinion

by flurly on 1/5/24, 6:49 PM with 92 comments

• by jeroenhd on 1/5/24, 7:04 PM

  I must say I'm pleasantly surprised by the way Europe voted on this resolution. There aren't many European states that recognise the state of Palestine, but it seems that at the very least the Palestinian people themselves have some diplomatic support.

  I wonder what drove Micronesia and Nauru to vote against the resolution rather than stay out of it.

• by ZeroGravitas on 1/5/24, 8:11 PM

  > This will be a chapter in American history that we'll later be ashamed of. There have been other such chapters, but in most of them America was at least acting in its own interest. This time we're just being used.

  9/11 is the parallel that jumps out to me the most. And while maybe the many American servicepeople killed during the wars that came after that care about the distinction, I'm not sure many of the other dead find it a salient consideration.

  And that's assuming you accept that the wars in response to 9/11 were in America's "own interest", which no longer seems to be something you can take for granted even from Republican Presidents.

• by extheat on 1/5/24, 7:02 PM

  This particular rejection vote by the US in the UN is a bit peculiar to me. Obviously, I understand the sensitivity around the situation--so why not abstain from the vote? Why when given that option, not use abstention and instead choose rejection? It sends a powerful and deliberate message, and I'm not sure who it's supposed to appease nor what interests that represents.

• by abeppu on 1/5/24, 7:07 PM

  Poking around, I think this is the thing that vote was about: https://documents-dds-ny.un.org/doc/UNDOC/LTD/N23/318/77/PDF...

  While I agree with PG that this outcome should be jarring and force Americans to consider why our country has taken the positions it has, I think we also have to interrogate the resolution. What does a right to self-determination mean? Who gets to be a 'people'? If such a group is not unanimous in what they want, what does self-determination at the group level mean? When multiple such groups attempt to 'self-determine' in ways which are clearly in conflict, what does it mean for the international community to recognize such a general right?

• by gmuslera on 1/5/24, 8:21 PM

  And is not the only vote where US shown how isolated are from world opinion. Migrants rights, Cuba embargo, economic coercion against developing countries are a few recent examples of UN resolutions that follow that pattern. And it is a pattern by itself.

• by znpy on 1/5/24, 7:33 PM

  I have nothing specific to add on the subject, but…

  It’s ironic to see PG flagged on basically his own website.

• by patmcc on 1/5/24, 7:42 PM

  It's also possible (likely?) that it's similar to the "US only country to vote against making food a human right" thing, where it's actually a bit more complicated than a single headline summary would suggest.

  At a start - what's the entire text of the resolution?

• by somewhereoutth on 1/5/24, 7:34 PM

  Hamas made the calculation that Israel's response to the atrocities of October 7th would be vengeful and unsubtle (and indeed it has been), and that world opinion would reel Israel in before they could seriously degrade Hamas as an organisation. Is this what we want?

• by zer0-c00l on 1/5/24, 7:03 PM

  Thankfully pg isn’t in charge of foreign policy, because it seems like he can’t distinguish performative UN votes from reality. Would love to see how some of these countries would vote if it actually meant anything.

• by Dowwie on 1/5/24, 7:40 PM

  Does it, though?

• by BurningFrog on 1/5/24, 7:31 PM

  My loose thought is that since the US will vote against and veto any anti Israel resolutions, other countries don't have to take the heat from voting No.

• by dhdudbd on 1/5/24, 6:54 PM

  yes... America has only now just joined the wrong side of history...

• by nikolay on 1/5/24, 7:34 PM

  The Israeli lobby is the most powerful, and it mostly consists of disoriented pseudo-Christians who misread the Bible and people who directly benefit from doing so. Most prominent American Jews support Palestine; Religious Jews, too!

• by mikrl on 1/5/24, 7:34 PM

  There’s no such thing as a right or wrong side of history.

  If the allies lost WW2 the right side of history would involve singing the Horst-Wessel-Lied with your morning coffee.

  It is only thanks to human sacrifice and spirit of will that we don’t.

  What about Perestroika? Which side of history was the right/wrong one there, the USSR or the RF?

  Is the modern Polish or Ukrainian state on the right or wrong side? Israel and Palestine?

  History is history, there’s just one and it’s written by humanity.

• by beastman82 on 1/5/24, 7:23 PM

  His two proposed explanations are laughably reductive

• by havelhovel on 1/5/24, 7:40 PM

  I'm curious which lobbying group Paul Graham is referring to as "America's most powerful lobby." Here are the top ten, by spending, in the US as of 2023:

  1. US Chamber of Commerce $49,970,000

  2. National Assn of Realtors $33,661,316

  3. Blue Cross/Blue Shield $21,634,765

  4. Pharmaceutical Research & Manufacturers of America $21,043,000

  5. American Hospital Assn $20,928,991

  6. American Medical Assn $15,330,000

  7. Amazon.com $14,970,000

  8. Meta $14,640,000

  9. Business Roundtable $13,490,000

  10. CTIA $11,570,000

  https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/top-spenders