from Hacker News

Researchers discover physical cause of long Covid tiredness

by rdtennent on 1/4/24, 2:24 PM with 104 comments

by kick_in_the_dor on 1/4/24, 3:52 PM
> we saw that the mitochondria of the muscle, also known as the energy factories of the cell
*Ahem*, powerhouse of the cell
Jokes aside, this is a terrifying stat: "Although the majority of people infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus recover within weeks...around one in eight will get long-COVID. Symptoms in patients with long-COVID...include severe cognitive problems (brain fog), fatigue, exercise intolerance, autonomic dysregulation..."
by tasty_freeze on 1/4/24, 4:02 PM
The title is a lot more exciting than what is actually being claimed. They say that malfunctioning mitochondria are to blame ... but there is no insight into why the mitochondria are malfunctioning.
My wife, a formerly energetic, outgoing, type A person, has been suffering from ME/CFS for 20 years. Long COVID symptoms are highly similar to ME/CFS problems, and the hope has been that the long-underfunded ME/CFS research would benefit from the research money that has come with COVID. Thus, I felt let down when I read the linked blurb.
by radicalbyte on 1/4/24, 5:11 PM
An interesting fact: this research was paid for by crowd funding because the Ministry of Health refused to fund it. The Netherlands is also unique in Europe as the only country which does not even try to treat this condition.
If you get ME/CFS you are, quite literally, left to die here. Unless someone in your network looks after you.
by devjab on 1/4/24, 5:09 PM
Cool. I wonder if they’ll ever discover the reason behind the loss of smell. I lost mine completely for about a year, and I still can’t smell most things. Luckily one of the smells I got back was shit, I say lucky because it’s handy when you have diaper wearing children. In general what I’ve gotten back has been “nasty” smells, I can also smell things like vomit or rotten food. But “good” smells are still completely gone. I can’t smell flowers, I can’t smell candy and so on.
It never really affected me, as I apparently cared a lot less about smells than many other people, but it is a little frightening to lose something because of a disease. I’m happy it was the only side effect I got, I’d obviously rather have had none, but I’d frankly be comforted by scientists knowing more about it.
by seiferteric on 1/4/24, 3:58 PM
I really wonder if we will find these symptoms are caused by other viruses as well. Possibly candidate for chronic fatigue syndrome?
by funnym0nk3y on 1/4/24, 6:00 PM
Somehow I think of epigenetic processes. That COVID had an interaction with the way genes for mitochondria are transcribed. I also heard somewhere that mitochondrial dysfunction is related to psychiatric diseases, IIRC bipolar disorder or depression. Although that mechanism seems different as antidepressants and mood stabilizers don't make a dent long COVID.
by zanfr on 1/4/24, 4:47 PM
https://www.pasteur.fr/en/press-area/press-documents/covid-1...
there is also the small matter of... viral persistence
by reify on 1/5/24, 3:31 AM
As with any of this research into long covid, it feels deceptive to me.
Where is the clarity and consice exacting standards that we are supposed to be in awe of in the scientific community
Why is there no mention of whether or not the test subjects had been vaccinated.
How do we know that the vaccine did not cause the same symptoms?
Surely, only then, could we, I mean I, put this thinking to bed and move on.
For balance and clarity I would like to see the same research done on those who have had the vaccine.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38865876 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-44432-3
by francisofascii on 1/4/24, 6:46 PM
I don't think "tiredness" is a good word for the title. The type of symptoms experienced as post-exertional malaise is not really the same being sleepy.
by LastCovidWave on 1/4/24, 7:08 PM
Stop. Getting. Infected.
Do MORE to stop the spread. COVID is still spreading, disabling, killing. We're almost into year 5 of the pandemic.
It's not good for yourself, your family, or your community.
by rdtennent on 1/4/24, 2:24 PM
Researchers from Amsterdam UMC and Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam (VU) have discovered that the persistent fatigue in patients with long-COVID has a biological cause, namely mitochondria in muscle cells that produce less energy than in healthy patients. The results of the study were published today in Nature Communications.
by thenerdhead on 1/5/24, 5:13 AM
I'm sorry HN, but you continue to downplay long covid when there is evidence like this for a biological pathology right in front of you.
Please stop saying it is psychosomatic. Please stop saying only unfit people get it. People stop saying it is caused only by the vaccine.
All of these things do nothing helpful. The science will continue to push through these opinions regardless.
Why can't the discussion be focused on the actual finding here which is that we have a much clearer model of what is causing PEM / exercise intolerance in symptomatic long covid patients versus asymptomatic controls via amyloid deposits, mitochondria dysfunction, and muscle structure changes.
by hirako2000 on 1/4/24, 5:05 PM
Are we still trying to find some direct physical correlation betwee the symptoms of "long covid" and the virus infection itself?
Such symptoms occuring are unsurprising given the psychological effect of the pandemic at its height, its societal and economical effects.
Adding to this getting infected and all the fanfare, along with fear mongering we've been subject to via the media and mandates, long covid could alone so easily be caused by the side effects on mental health.
I won't dare claiming most disease have psychological root causes, not a medical professional.
by Zelphyr on 1/4/24, 2:45 PM
This connects closely with and supports Dr. Chris Palmer’s brain energy theory.
by progrus on 1/4/24, 4:16 PM
Am I supposed to believe that these physiological effects have nothing to do with fear of the virus?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1447278/