by lloyds_barclays on 12/21/23, 2:18 PM with 300 comments
by paxys on 12/21/23, 4:24 PM
> NEHotspotHelper allows your app to participate in the process of authenticating with hotspot networks, that is, Wi-Fi networks where the user must interact with the network to gain access to the wider Internet.
> NEHotspotHelper is only useful for hotspot integration. There are both technical and business restrictions that prevent it from being used for other tasks, such as accessory integration or Wi-Fi based location. Before using NEHotspotHelper, you must first be granted a special entitlement (com.apple.developer.networking.HotspotHelper) by Apple.
Which makes sense, but then why exactly are apps like WeChat and Alipay granted this entitlement?
by coldcode on 12/21/23, 2:47 PM
by eduction on 12/21/23, 3:22 PM
by peddling-brink on 12/21/23, 2:51 PM
by thih9 on 12/21/23, 4:21 PM
Like most here, I don’t have Wechat or Alipay installed. But I’m interested in e.g. Instagram, Facebook, Whatsapp, Twitter, Tiktok, Snapchat, Chrome, Firefox, Photoshop, Lightroom, etc.
by forward1 on 12/21/23, 9:14 PM
by captn3m0 on 12/21/23, 4:44 PM
by ralmidani on 12/21/23, 5:18 PM
by dang on 12/21/23, 6:05 PM
by mrpippy on 12/21/23, 2:52 PM
That said, this maybe shows an incompatibility between Apple’s privacy strategy and “super-apps” like WeChat and AliPay. When a company shoves all functionality into one app, that app suddenly has all the entitlements, and it’s harder to tell when and how any sensitive data is being used.
The West generally doesn’t develop apps this way. For example, Comcast has a separate “WiFi Hotspots” app. Although LOL, they posted 2 days ago that its functionality is being combined into the main Xfinity app. Maybe the West is catching up.
by m463 on 12/22/23, 12:36 AM
deep links, they go deeper than you think.
ibeacons provide very precise indoor location, think of all the behavioral data a store app can collect.
apple is not really your friend.
seriously, apple should let you
- know what is running
- know what network traffic happens
- control these thigns
- run your own programs
I would love an ios firewall program or non-neutered little snitch
by mannyv on 12/21/23, 4:54 PM
They are checking the environment for stuff that might have known locations, which is different. You can do the same with bluetooth/BLE.
by cglong on 12/22/23, 2:42 AM
by ynniv on 12/21/23, 3:32 PM
by KindAndFriendly on 12/21/23, 7:00 PM
I never thought about the idea that an app can track when I leave my (most frequently) used WiFi and derive from that I left home.
by Pesthuf on 12/21/23, 6:15 PM
If there's a legitimate use for these entitlements, everyone should be able to use them. And the ultimate choice for what an App should and shouldn't be able to do should be in the users' hands. But Apple needs to protect their shareholders from this horrid vision of the future.
by tqwhite on 12/21/23, 4:34 PM
1) means that Apple does cover this situation and
2) my opinion that the phrasing "Apple allows applications to track user locations without authorization" is contemptible
are both true.
by raylad on 12/22/23, 10:42 AM
I am trying to understand how TikTok can suggest "people you may know" when I have not shared my contacts, but have sat next to those people recently.
Bluetooth seems the most likely.
by graftak on 12/21/23, 9:18 PM
This does not solve the entire problem of course, but at least alleviates some of it.
by bengale on 12/22/23, 8:18 AM
Our company has an app that does geofencing and we’ve had no end of issues getting it to work consistently. This would have been useful.
by toasted-subs on 12/21/23, 5:59 PM
Seems worse to give your users a false sense of security.
by tinus_hn on 12/21/23, 3:25 PM
Should be behind a permissions check, but not the end of the world.
by EchoReflection on 12/21/23, 6:43 PM
by tremarley on 12/21/23, 7:31 PM
by happytiger on 12/21/23, 6:55 PM
It is fundamentally intrinsic to the technology of most digital technology that: 1) their very data-driven nature leads to information gathering, and 2) the colossal and inherently inexhaustible recurring revenues in that data collection will always pull organizations and their leadership towards data collection at scale.
The only conceivable framework for preventing information collection is to attach data privacy to the individual as an human right. Even “opting out” as an intrinsic default won’t be enough, though it is regulators’ and industries’ favorite kick-the-can strategy.
Otherwise it’s just a question of time, as the incentive for profit is overwhelmingly attractive to companies, regulators and markets.
Apple, for all the talk of privacy, cannot maintain the fiction of privacy while simulaneously answering to shareholders with a scale advertising business or really any advertising business of any revenue importance at all. Their promise of privacy for users died spiritually if not practically the moment they decided to dramatically expand their ad business, as it shifted the company from serving users as their customer with devices to making those same users the product to be sold.
So this kind of thing is inherent and will continue to emerge from Apple. The opt-in, limited nature of who is allowed access matters very little. Just follow the incentives to understand corporate behavior.
by aurelien on 12/21/23, 6:22 PM
by _justinfunk on 12/21/23, 3:08 PM
I appreciated this disclosure. The English was still a bit clunky - but it was a great use of the technology to open up the article to a wider audience. It felt sincere to me.
by kevinsync on 12/21/23, 5:41 PM
Eventually, he starts emulating the phone menus, asking the caller "Using your touch-tone keypad, please enter the first three letters of the movie title, now."
When this doesn't work, he blurts out "Why don't you just tell me the movie you want to see???"
Why in the holy hell do app developers who are trying to provide some kind of location-specific data not just ASK YOU WHERE YOU ARE? "I'm in Los Angeles" would suffice 99% of the time. If you go to Idaho, and care enough, change your location in that app -- now you get local bulletins about russet potatoes instead of encampment fires.
This is a rhetorical question, no need to answer it, just screaming into the void.
by otterley on 12/21/23, 2:52 PM
Doing so was instrumental to persuading Apple a few years ago to add an option “allow only once” when apps asked for permission to access the user’s current location.
by mrtksn on 12/21/23, 2:47 PM
Seems like a valid concern, though the author's writing style can be off putting since has a tone with an agenda.
However, AFAIK apps need to declare the use of this API and have a good reason for it(you fill up a form explaining why you need it and Apple has to agree to grant you the privilege). So, most likely your flashlight app is not tracking you.
I'm sorry you don't like it but that's the truth, the author left out crucial details to make it juicier.
by andirk on 12/21/23, 3:46 PM
There's a theory that Silk Road's Ross Ulbricht leaked his location via a Captcha on a website, despite actively covering his tracks.
I think Bitcoin's Satoshi is/was an Australian bloke living in Japan because of his wording + timestamp on posts.
I was able to send a friend a little hello message via a Facebook ad by hyper targeting them (before fb disallowed that), which also confirmed their location.
by cdme on 12/21/23, 4:39 PM
by m3kw9 on 12/21/23, 3:14 PM
by donohoe on 12/21/23, 2:52 PM
There is always a vector for abuse, and I think Apple has taken large steps to reduce that. I find this story a bit of a non-event.