from Hacker News

Rolex fined $100M for preventing its watches being sold online

by sparkling on 12/20/23, 10:44 PM with 263 comments

• by nyjah on 12/21/23, 1:23 AM

  If you haven't heard of The Time Piece Gentlemen, aka Anthony Farer, it's my favorite recent ponzi scheme as he documented the entire thing online.

  Because of the scarcity of Rolex's there are 'Grey Market' dealers. And one of those dealers just went to jail on $5million worth of fraud, basically stealing consigned watches.

  What's fascinating about the story is that during Covid the prices of the watches 10x'd for some of them so they were going for insane prices. And this guy vlogged the entire thing all the way up to his bust last month. It's a great way to see and learn about these expensive watches, and knowing the whole thing is bullshit is *chefskiss*

  https://tv.watchscammer.com

  https://www.youtube.com/@skerriesrockart

  https://robbreport.com/style/watch-collector/anthony-farrer-...

  https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-11-08/spending...

• by sunpazed on 12/21/23, 12:00 AM

  Rolex are the De Beers of the mechanical watch world. Scarcity and exclusivity is a great way to market luxury. A Rolex Submariner in the 80s was about $1,000 — these days it’s closer to $12,000. A new Daytona is twice that. While they were never cheap, they were affordable for a working professional.

• by hayksaakian on 12/20/23, 11:59 PM

  For those who skipped to the comments: They tried to prevent retailers from selling products first purchased from Rolex, and then sold online. "preventing its authorized dealers selling new watches online."

  First paragraph of the article

• by TrackerFF on 12/21/23, 12:45 AM

  I have a couple of colleagues that collect watches - and one of them brought in a high-end replica, think he paid around $500 or so for it, and compared it to the real deal - which he also had. Some kind of Rolex submariner, don't remember what exact model.

  To me, they looked identical. Felt identical. If you mixed them up and asked me which one was which, I'd be completely lost. He then pointed me to some youtube vids of people dissecting them, and it seems like you really have to bring out the microscope to tell.

  I don't know much about watches, but I'm just thinking that if they are getting so accurate...why would regular people shell out 5 figures for a real one, when you can get those for a couple of hundred bucks?

  Don't get me wrong - I like artisanry, but at this point it seems like you're paying the biggest upcharge for name, and nothing much else.

  (As for why my colleague bought replicas, apparently he'd wear those while traveling, in case he got robbed or whatever. Even though insurance would cover the original watch, just getting a legit one from stores/dealers has been a huge hassle. Months of wait time, etc.)

• by quickthrower2 on 12/21/23, 12:08 AM

  Rolex will need it's watches to phone home then, so they can remote-brick a watch that was sold online. Cough.. Sorry... did I say brick? I mean end the free included SaaS subscription.

• by makeitdouble on 12/20/23, 11:57 PM

  > Rolex’s competitors have not used the same tactics despite facing similar risks.

  It's interesting that competitors can be used in such a case as a benchmark of what is a legitimate strategy. Which makes it all the worse when they collude or fix a market.

• by neighbour on 12/21/23, 12:25 AM

  I own a couple of Rolexes, neither were purchased from an AD simply because I live in a place that has no ADs and I'm not travelling hours to play the AD waitlist game.

  I say this is a good move. You should be able to sell them online. The second-hand dealers do it and it works fine.

  This also doesn't really affect the exclusivity of the product either. The ADs still get to control supply and will still probably not sell to people unless they know them (which sucks).

• by tsunamifury on 12/21/23, 12:20 AM

  Rolex, LVMH, Ferrari, and those who try to falsely limit distribution are the path forward for luxury. It’s clear that main stream culture eats up a canvas bag with no defining quality features or a machine made watch that can be copied for 200$ nearly perfectly as long as they feel it’s exclusive.

  It’s a bit of a bummer because several other brands have tried to sell on actual quality struggle. Artificial scarcity is just too strong a draw.

• by helij on 12/21/23, 3:54 PM

  Rolex is seriously overpriced. Not sure why people are so excited about them. Grand Seiko for example has better movements, better Q&A[0]. Is name really worth that much?

  [0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKrJOMaFuyA

• by paulpauper on 12/21/23, 12:00 AM

  Are people still impressed by Rolexes? This is not the 90s or 80s anymore when dropping $10k on a watch was a big move. Things have really exploded post-Covid with influencer culture and wealth appearing seemingly ex nihilo. These nobody, no-name kids seem to have so much money, even.

• by the_black_hand on 12/21/23, 12:59 AM

  Why on earth would a Rolex AD want to sell watches online? The regular pieces e.g Submariners are out of stock 99% of the time, and once stock comes in there's waitlist with 500 people. For the more expensive ones that are in stock, I doubt many clients (outside of scalpers) would be purchasing those sight unseen. Doesn't make much sense to me. It bad for ADs and customers, really only benefits scalpers.

• by veblengoods101 on 12/21/23, 6:07 AM

  One thing is clear, don't post about horology or mechanical timepieces here. There's a vocal demographic in HN that does not appreciate them.

• by ryanSrich on 12/21/23, 12:18 AM

  This is why I've always liked Omega. Not as high status as Rolex, but a luxury watch nonetheless, and one you can easily purchase direct online.

• by mc32 on 12/20/23, 11:45 PM

  I dont see a problem with it. Moreover it improves their employment numbers, lest these clerks go unemployed and “automated” out of a job.

  It’s a luxury item, who cares?

  They could require a two year advance appointment and visit to HQ before buying, for all I care.

  They should put their nose in Amazon’s business of commingling and allowing fakes and swapping products on reviews and that bullshit that does affect the Joels et Maries.

• by jmyeet on 12/21/23, 12:47 AM

  This is a silly decision and should be overturned on appeal. Who knows if it will be.

  Manufacturers place conditions on how their products are sold, at what price and to whom. "No online sales" is no different to requiring an authorized retailer to sell something at MSRP or no more than 1 or 2 or 3 per customer or only to local residents.

• by iaw on 12/21/23, 1:20 AM

  I had a watch streak.

  I really like Seiko mechanicals when I need a watch.

  If I had infinite money I'd get an Omega and then a used F.P. Journe with tourbillon (I found one in Tokyo that was comparable in price to a Rolex).

  Rolex is the Gucci of watches, every one knows the name but very few people get them because they authentically like the brand (in my opinion)

• by luxuryballs on 12/21/23, 12:26 AM

  It’s kinda crazy if they can cite you for not selling your product on a platform that didn’t even exist 100 years ago. I bet the reasoning is going to be very rich and well articulated.

• by causality0 on 12/21/23, 12:04 AM

  Seems ass-backwards to me. Enforcing a specific type of sales experience is much more reasonable than forcing prices.

• by mensetmanusman on 12/21/23, 12:55 AM

  That's so weird.

  "you must sell online!!!!"

• by poundtown on 12/21/23, 12:15 AM

  dont be a rolex dealer then..pound sand..they should be able to control their brands exclusivity.

• by throwme_123 on 12/20/23, 11:47 PM

  That's a legitimately good use case for NFTs.

  When you sell valuable physical objects that have a high risk of counterfeiting, the secure way is to associate a "digital twin" of the object that has verifiable provenance and this is exactly what NFTs as a technology are good at.

  edit: Thanks to everyone that downvoted this to -4 despite the numerous good remarks in comment that spark a solely technical discussion on the topic. Please come over your hate.