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Ask HN: Terrified I wont find another job

by dookahku on 12/17/23, 6:04 AM with 90 comments

• by kirubakaran on 12/17/23, 6:23 AM

  Whenever you need just one of something (job, relationship etc), it's going to look hopeless, right up to the moment that you get that one thing, and then you'd wonder why you ever worried.

  You have the experience. There is demand for your experience. You're going to be fine. Just keep applying. Try not to waste your energy on worrying, and redirect it towards sending out applications etc. Easier said than done, I know.

• by RomanPushkin on 12/17/23, 8:16 AM

  In 2014, I relocated to the Bay Area with my spouse and one-year-old child, armed only with $9k USD and 2 bags of belongings for the whole family. I had secured a job, but unexpectedly, the company ran out of funds within six months.

  The first week after my termination, I was just lost in space and time, freaking out. Over the next two weeks, I applied to every possible software engineering job, sending at least a thousand emails. I spent all days long on the phone, switching ears when one became sore from holding the phone.

  It took me only two weeks to find a new gig. In the end, I allowed myself a week to decompress and then joined the new company, four weeks after losing my previous position. The stress was intense. My bank account hovered between $3k-$6k, and the stakes were high. If I didn't secure a job soon, my family and I faced the real possibility of going under the bridge.

  My advice to those in similar situations is this: don't let despair dominate your thoughts. Instead, think about your family, or imagine you have a child, or will have in the future, and now it's your time to prove you can do it.

  I believe this mindset is crucial. IMO, intensive preparation for leetcode is less important in desperate times. It's better to continuously apply to jobs. Leetcode is more suitable when you're already employed and can afford to spend time on it, ideally over a span of six months to a year, to thoroughly tackle those 300 popular questions.

• by pipthrowaway23 on 12/17/23, 8:10 AM

  This post title struck a chord with me. I was PIP'd from Amazon earlier this year and am currently on a medical leave which is going to end very shortly. I'm going to have to go back to work and probably will just take the severance and GTFO because culture in my org is toxic and unreasonable, and my first PIP was designed from the start to be impossible.

  I was a high performer, but have no real mentors. I have a couple friends who can provide referrals, but their companies all have hiring freezes right now - as do many tech companies from the looks of things. It's every week I see another post on HN about a company doing layoffs, and I expect more to come.

  Even if I could find the motivation to grind leetcode (goodness, I hate interviewing in tech), the economy and companies are currently in a very touchy and cautious state it would seem. I'm in a HCOL area and rents since COVID are at an all-time high, and to make matters worse I need to find a new apartment in the next few months (and no job = no approval, so that's fun..)

  I know I will probably be best served by finding a less paying job with a lot less stress, but that isn't exactly an easy thing to narrow down.

  I'm not exactly sure what I hoped to achieve by sharing this, but I suppose it's just nice to have some camaraderie in these times and know there are others struggling too.

• by bentona on 12/17/23, 8:38 AM

  Some advice based solely on my experience, YMMV etc.

  Re: Mentors - reach out to someone who you enjoyed working with in a previous role, looked up to, and would enjoy working with again. Just ask them to have a quick chat, and have specific questions about your job hunt ready - ask them to share their approach to a job search, share what you've done, and ask if they have any advice for improvement. If the chat goes well, you can ask if it's alright if you reach out again. You don't necessarily need a full "mentor", just some guidance.

  Re: Referrals - This is not strictly about typical "referrals", but if you can have a chat with a recruiter, you often can similarly cut through initial screens / red tape.

  I have had a ton of luck reaching out directly to in-house recruiters for roles I'm interested in on LinkedIn. They're often constantly on LinkedIn, frequently doing outbound, and IME they're often happy that someone reached out - and this can be more effective than spending an hour hand-crafting a cover letter. Keep the message to a couple sentences, share why you're interested in the company, and again, ask to have a quick chat.

• by BaculumMeumEst on 12/17/23, 9:36 AM

  Not to be dismissive of people in this position, but speaking as someone with a regular ass boring job outside of the bay area, saying you're "terrified" sounds like you're far more worried than you need to be. The standards at jobs around the country are so low, and people in general are so bad at their jobs.

  You might not LIKE the other work that's out there, but you could always find a software dev gig, or IT analyst work, or whatever weird name orgs will come up with for the only thing that matters: A Job You're Qualified To Do.

  I've never had a mentor either, and all I've done in my career in the last decade is just cast a very wide net over a major metropolitan area and showed up to whatever got back to me, and it's worked out very well for me despite the fact that I'm frankly very mediocre and dysfunctional in comparison to our country's top talent.

• by dcminter on 12/17/23, 8:40 AM

  Software isn't done eating the world yet; it is worth hanging in there.

  End of year is the worst time to be looking even in bullish markets; New Year is always when hiring picks up as the hiring managers are finished with their vacations, new budgets are in, and the summer vacation is too far away to mess up the process.

  Pesonally I'd pick a "enjoyed bug fixing" over leetcode-prepped every time. My tip is to focus on soft skills; being amusing in interviews has always been my superpower :)

• by CaliforniaKarl on 12/17/23, 9:38 AM

  I bet you'll find something.

  It's really easy to assume that "bay area" means places like Meta, Apple, etc.. But there are others.

  I'll take the opportunity to plug that at Stanford, we've got a small pile of open IT positions (42, per https://careersearch.stanford.edu/jobs/search/12458736), covering technologies as plain as Python & Java, to as weird as Oracle. Some positions are fixed-term, if you just want to 'get your feet wet'.

  Another set of companies that folks often miss are the auto companies. For example, Ford has a posting for a Senior Simulation Software Engineer, job ID 20901, which wants someone with experience in C++ and Python. The job's location says Michigan, but if you dig in it also lists Ford's office in Palo Alto (in the Stanford Research Park) I know Toyota Research Institute is in Los Altos, though I don't know their open positions. And besides Tesla, there's also Rivian and Zoox.

  The map at the bottom of https://stanfordresearchpark.com/community/ gives you a good overview of the types of companies in one chunk of Palo Alto. And there are many other places besides that!

• by tinco on 12/17/23, 8:03 AM

  If you're grinding leetcode and are working on side projects you're already in the top 10% of applications for me as a hiring manager. I'm not in the Bay Area so maybe competition's a bit more intense over there.

  Besides being on the grind, what I like to see is that you've been working on / experimenting with tech outside the stack you were using for those 10 years at your previous job. Especially stuff that's hot right now (in your own perception), just to show that you're interested in using the best tools to improve your work.

  From my experience as a hiring manager, getting referrals is nice and it has a good track record of getting good team members, but (at least for me) it's not enough to build a whole company from referrals alone. I still go through regular applications to fill out the roles, and I bet everyone else does too, so don't worry too hard about forcing things at meetups.

  It will definitely be easier to get a job that way though so definitely give it a shot, especially since people at fun places to work will advertise their open vacancies more loudly than people at less fun places.

• by viraptor on 12/17/23, 7:53 AM

  Apply to places, then apply more. If you're in a busy place like bay area, you'll get something in the end. And while I'm not advocating jumping between jobs too often, keep in mind that if you need / are worried about money, you can join some job you don't love and keep looking for better options. When I started at my first place, I sent ~200 applications and got 3 responses (although that was with little experience). If you're getting interviews already, you'll be fine.

  Also, I don't know if you want to handle it like that, but if a candidate told me they're autistic ahead of time, I'd likely be prepared to handle the interview better / not be surprised by some behaviours. Not sure if that generalises to other places and I understand this is not an easy topic.

• by Aeolun on 12/17/23, 8:15 AM

  Use recruiters. They can probably get you in the door somewhere as a contractor, and from there on the trajectory is up (assuming you are any good).

  Honestly, the worst part of my 6 months of job seeking after I resigned from my last job was that the interview loop is just soul crushing.

• by corysama on 12/17/23, 8:34 AM

  If you have 10 years of C++ experience, that’s 5 years more than the median employed C++ software engineer.

  That might not be enough to get you fat FAANG cash. But, it will definitely get you “A Job”.

  You mostly need to be able to talk like you have not been coasting at your previous job for the past 11 years. Get up to date with the C++ 20 standard and be able to speak intelligently about it and you’ll be doing better than most.

• by notabee on 12/17/23, 9:45 AM

  Just to commiserate, I also had a health issue years ago that really threw my career off track. I managed to land a steady job after some long and stressful months and eventually got some treatment that got me back to 95% health-wise, but the job is way below what I think I'm capable of and it's really hard to get back out there and interview for something better. Unfortunately mentioning any kind of health issue during the interview process (typically when the associated resume gap comes up) seems to be a kiss of death, even with supposedly "enlightened" companies that rattle on about their great culture and acceptance. I recommend not mentioning health issues during the interview process at all if you can help it.

  If anyone has a different viewpoint on this or has discovered some better way to approach this touchy topic while job hunting, I am quite open to input.

• by danparsonson on 12/17/23, 8:00 AM

  I sympathise - I moved to Taiwan to be with my girlfriend and I'm having almost zero luck job hunting here so far; it's definitely not helped by the fact that my Mandarin is terrible, but at least I have plenty of free time to practise!

  I wish you the best of luck; I went through this once before in my home country and it felt rough until I finally landed a good gig after months of nothing - hang in there and do whatever you can to look after your mental well being in the meantime.

• by simne on 12/18/23, 1:40 AM

  Trucking is not bad, if you could do it good enough (I mean health reasons, not all people capable, for example many truck drivers I know, have issues with alcohol, because too much stress on roads).

  But I think, even if AI grow will be moderate from now, we could not avoid autonomous trucks (4 level of autopilot, as defined in wikipedia) in nearest 5 years, and I think, in 2030s, autonomous trucks will literally eat people jobs.

  I think, you will have extremely more chances, if you could become entrepreneur (now I mean, not by health but if you like this type of work). - Management, and decision making is very high valued now, and if you somewhere could run your own business, is even better.

  Any way, in real life, people are not equal - choose way, where your weakness is minimal issue (or just not significant), but where your strengths will be total win.

  Example, I also have some autistic issues. Once I have made fine print dump of 1200+ win32 functions (it is easy to intercept, but all of them have tricky interface with not big, but not simple and not straightforward structures, so I have looked in docs and on real data and to figure out, how to dump real data, not dynamic pointers to nowhere).

• by fauigerzigerk on 12/17/23, 8:32 AM

  I'm afraid I don't have any concrete job seeking advice for you, but if you love making software, now is not the time to bail. The cycle looks like it could be about to turn. I've seen this multiple times since the .com bubble.

  Interest rates are probably at their peak. Speculation about interest rate cuts have begun. It's not long before tech companies start hiring again for fear of missing out on the best candidates.

• by kypro on 12/18/23, 10:06 AM

  > i've gotten a few interviews, more coming.

  Assuming you're not completely socially inept, you're fine. It's those who don't even get interviews that I worry about because that suggests they don't have the experience needed to get the roles they're applying for.

  The fact you're getting interviews suggests people feel you have the right skills, but interviews can be tough. You're often competing against several other people who often aren't any more skilled, but just "click" with the interviewer better so get the job.

  My guess is that if you keep applying for roles and getting interviews and you'll find someone that will like what you're offering eventually. Don't lose hope.

  The other thing I'd say is just remember this is largely a numbers game. I've seen enough bad hires to know that luck plays a significant role and getting hired isn't purely a reflection of experience. If you have 50 people apply for a role employers are not carefully weighing up the pros and cons of each candidate, instead they're making quick judgements based on a quick glance over your profile. Similar things tend happen during interviews, rarely will they invest in the time to carefully weigh up each candidate by ability. Instead, they're just looking to get a rough feel for each candidate's ability. You should use this to your advantage. Make sure the first paragraph of your resume/CV makes you sound great. Then when you get to the interview doing little things like dressing well, being enthusiastic about the role/company, and trying to keep the conversation flowing without too much awkwardness will help massively.

  I think you're fine though. If you managed to get an offer after just a few interviews that would probably be more surprising honestly.

• by krowsken on 12/17/23, 8:13 AM

  In a similar position. I stopped my life for a couple of years due to health issues. I'm in a slightly better spot now, where I can start looking for work and getting my career/life back on track. I don't have any connections or a public profile, so I can relate to the feeling that it's possible I might never get a job.

• by jantypas2 on 12/17/23, 10:35 AM

  Despite all the talk, believe it or not, there are still open positions -- I work for a large telecom in the Bay Area, and I'm told we have 8,000 unfilled positions. But let's drill down a bit -- what is gone is the insanity -- we no longer pay $200,000 a year for dev-ops, you can no longer bring your dog to work. And, yes, we still have management that INSISTS if they can't see you in the chair, you must be scheming with a competitor. The jobs are there, but folks, we call it work, for a reason. If it were fun, we'd call it play. Mind you, I would completely understand anyone who said "I don't want that lifestyle anymore -- it was killing me!" But when you say that, you also say I don't want the paycheck. Decide what you will put up and what you won't put up with. I need medical coverage from a company that will be there, so I make my peace with the choices. I'm well paid, and well covered, but there is a price. Also, when you do shop around, remember, you know what you're worth -- both on the high and low end. Everyone talks about not selling out for a low salary -- but be careful. If someone is willing to pay you substantially more than you're used to, either you'd had a problem for years you didn't know about, or, why is everyone else refusing this job... And, as a final note, it's always easier to get a new job when you have one, so don't turn away what I call the "temporary job". I knew someone who was unemployed at the time -- and we had an open position that paid about $130K. He informed me "I will not work for people who do not value me and pay me at least $147K!" Now why it was $147K, as opposed to $150K, I have no idea, and at the moment, he was making nothing. So I don't understand. When I joined this company, I took a 30% cut. I wasn't happy about it, but a 30% cut is better than a 100% cut. (See I did pay attention in math class!) However, getting back into the workforce let me meet people again, and by blessed circumstances, meet people who moved me up over 20 years such that I've made back far more than I lost.

• by renewiltord on 12/17/23, 8:03 AM

  If you're in the Bay Area, just grind leetcode and CTCI-like books for max FAANG life. You don't need all those other things if all you want is a software engineering job. Once you have then developed confidence that you can just replicate it when you need, you can do the other things.

• by Oras on 12/17/23, 9:27 AM

  Side projects and leetcode will take you further when you secure interviews.

  One thing you didn’t mention is your resume. Are you writing the right thing when applying? Saying you’ve worked on bug fixing most of the time is a great skill but needs to be communicated differently.

  Something like:

  A team player with long experience improving legacy code bases and maintaining projects with little guidance.

  Working with different languages is fantastic too, ensure having example for each but in your resume intro (objectives), focus on your highest skill and make keywords related to the job description in bold. Recruiters spend only 6 seconds skimming resumes so make sure to give them a reason to stop and read.

  Make your LinkedIn profile up to date, populate all your skills and your work history.

  Good luck!

• by mike503 on 12/17/23, 11:19 AM

  Try being an (old school) sysadmin / platform / DevOps person that doesn't have terraform/ansible/python skills. Never needed it, always been overkill, and every single job wants it in the space now.

  I've made my own homegrown ansible type tools and everything else under the sun. But grown organically and not requiring learning a different DSL.

  I've worked in the industry so long everything recommends "senior" level to me, which I am eventually in each job I'm at, except I don't have a those two skills that everyone apparently requires, which makes it real weird finding anything.

  You should be able to find a lot of SWE jobs with your languages. Those are pretty solid.

• by fxtentacle on 12/17/23, 9:44 AM

  Instead of leetcode, I would try doing actual small jobs on upwork.com

  First, it will earn you some additional money. But much more importantly, after a while you can confidently state that you have experience solving issues that companies are willing to pay for. And that's what hiring managers like to see/hear.

  Just keep in mind that the non-US competition on most of those remote job sites is pretty fierce. Expect to be slightly underpaid. That said, once you get the hang of it, applying to an actual in-office job is probably easier than negotiating a well-paid fully remote Upwork project. So it will be great training for your written negotiation skills.

• by dylanhassinger on 12/17/23, 8:06 AM

  build a website for yourself

  pretend to be confident

  remember companies hire techies to solve problems. be a solution

  and long term, build something. sometimes its easier to just go make money on the internet than to make it thru these overbaked interview processes

• by sircastor on 12/17/23, 8:25 PM

  If you have an established career in software, for heaven’s sake don’t leave unless you actually want to.

  Even if you have been away from work for a bit, you’ve still got marketable skills. And people go on sabbatical all the time. 10 months really isn’t a big deal (IMO), though I don’t doubt that it feels like it.

  Don’t give up. You’ll find another position. If you search for a bit and aren’t finding what you want, frame shift a bit (different compensation, different location, environment, etc)

• by olliej on 12/17/23, 9:33 AM

  Honestly open source projects such that you can point to work you did without requiring an interview is super effective.

  I'm honestly unconvinced leetcode practice is useful, there's a significant misunderstanding on coding interviews (google, apple, MS-to-an-extent ask questions I've seen labeled "leet code" but generally as a result of people not understanding the goal of such questions). Companies that are doing "real" leetcode questions in the sense of "could produce a solution for this specific weird question? yes/no" are probably not something you'd want to work for in the long term, and general "make sure you can explain what you are doing while writing code, make sure you can come up with test cases, make sure you can come up with solution trade offs" practice will work for leetcode, and be more useful to less questionable companies.

  One other big thing is to try to tailor your CV/resume to each job you apply to. For mass application that isn't really feasible, but if you're only applying to 5-20 a little tailoring of your resume to each position (in the order of a couple of sentences on your background and specialities) is helpful. Your CV should also be as short as possible, no more than two pages, ideally one. Don't include irrelevant prior jobs, if you've been working more than a couple of years the jobs are more important than your degrees if you have them, and your school grades do not matter. Of what you keep, prioritize the jobs and qualifications relevant to the specific job. e.g. if the job you're applying to is primarily C++ your CV should put more emphasis on your C++ experience than the JS ones, etc.

• by m1sta_ on 12/17/23, 7:55 AM

  Are you good at what you do? Do you have a public profile? While you're wait build a profile fixing bugs in open source products.

• by bamboozled on 12/17/23, 8:27 AM

  If you have the funds, build something you’ve always wanted to build, from there the path forwards will be clear.

  Right now you’re paralysed.

• by lakotasapa on 12/18/23, 8:46 PM

  I'm the S bay, ping me if you wanna meetup. I quit from AMZN in 2019 and have not worked since however, I do have a "full-time" job as a dad ;) But I'm itching to do something, particularly for myself. Corp jobs are a rat race I no longer wanna be part of.

• by mynameisnoone on 12/17/23, 9:48 AM

  Go to the coffee shops, do that stuff on your laptop, and casually talk to people. Best areas are Mountain View and Palo Alto downtown, and SF financial district. Also, Palo Alto libraries are fantastic but are mostly residents rather than startup and business people. Tech meetups too. Go, go, go. :@]

• by nirinor on 12/17/23, 5:30 PM

  I am not hiring, but might be able to help with some other parts. DM me if you want to talk.

• by TradingPlaces on 12/17/23, 11:57 AM

  The National Labs are hiring https://nationallabs.org/work-here/careers/

• by badrabbit on 12/17/23, 10:23 AM

  What scares me about this thread is it seems remote work even for devs is much harder these days if you have to be in the bay area and then still struggle.

• by prakashn27 on 12/17/23, 3:31 PM

  Bay Area with your exp should be easy. Might take time but you will definitely find it .

  If it helps I just switched jobs and job market is not as bad as it looks

• by high_byte on 12/19/23, 6:01 AM

  if you enjoy finding & fixing bugs, you might enjoy bug bounties! try hacker one! https://www.hackerone.com/