from Hacker News

California DMV Digital ID Pilot Program

by jlturner on 12/16/23, 4:41 PM with 89 comments

• by bri3d on 12/16/23, 5:18 PM

  The Estonian e-ID system and Qualified Electronic Signature in the EU are good ideas. The government issues you a signed identity. You can use that signed identity to counter-sign challenges in places you'd otherwise (in the US) need to use a Social Security Number and a convoluted private market identity-verification system (for example, the stupid "were you associated with this address 4.5 years ago" things). Like opening a bank account, insurance, paying medical bills, taxes, etc.

  Replacing driver's licenses with QR codes for physical interactions, on the other hand, doesn't seem to solve for much. We have a similar system in Colorado and I've never found any value in it; bars and liquor stores are under no obligation to accept it, so they don't.

• by calderwoodra on 12/16/23, 5:12 PM

  I've been using this for a couple months now and it has not helped me at all. It didn't help with closing a PO box in SF, Car rental in Florida denied it, casino in Maryland denied it, but maybe in a couple years it'll be accepted. I think Bevmo accepted it IIRC.

• by noodlesUK on 12/16/23, 4:59 PM

  I’m enthusiastic about the longer term future of solutions like this. Current IDs can’t do data minimization very easily, but phone-based solutions can. You should be able to get a permission prompt saying “drug store wants to know your >18/21 status” and not hand over any other data. Of course this requires regulatory oversight to ensure that the stores don’t just ask for all the perms available.

  However, does this implement the ISO spec for drivers licenses in Apple/google wallet, or is this some home grown thing?

• by hakfoo on 12/16/23, 5:36 PM

  To me, the killer feature of a paper identification document is that it just works.

  I've been in an accident. They're trying to figure out who I am for whatever reason (i. e. to hopefully tell my family what happened). The paper card still works. The phone may have been damaged, had the battery go flat, or be locked and they can't guess the PIN. I'd rather they just look at the paper card.

  Similarly, if I get pulled over, the cop knows what to do with a paper card, and it's not suddenly going to do something like flash a push notification, or lock the phone because he pressed the wrong button, and escalate the situation.

  The problems this solves are both questionable:

  1. I can load all my stuff onto my phone and don't need to carry a wallet! Good for you, honey. Frankly, retooling government infrastructure to satisfy an aesthetic pet peeve is sort of a waste of money. Worst case, get one of those fold-open cases with slots for cards, because you're going to have some card that can't be digitized anyway, even if it's the "collect 12 punches and get a free taco" card.

  2. It might allow us to generate some "yes this person is over 18" display without leaking the home address. That's assuming that it gets built properly, and consumed properly. We've seen, well, every app in the world. Nobody is going to be selective with permissions when they can ask the moon, and people are generally not in a situation to negotiate over it.

• by rgbrenner on 12/16/23, 5:22 PM

  We’ve had this in Colorado for several years now. On an iPhone, you can use guided access to restrict interactions with your phone… just triple press the power button. But there’s also a barcode they can scan to pull up the info on their own device.

  I rarely carry a wallet anymore… Apple Pay, Colorado state app and my insurance company’s website (or pdf of my card) has all of the info I ever need.

• by dpedu on 12/16/23, 5:37 PM

  I can't seem to get past the setup phase where the app "scans" your face via your phone's camera. A dozen attempts, different backgrounds and lighting and I keep getting "try again". Loving this AI-powered future we're in.

• by nextworddev on 12/16/23, 5:30 PM

  It’s worrying that they are trying to tie your Id to a device that you don’t control

• by tlogan on 12/16/23, 5:39 PM

  I received this, and it seems cool. However, there are some issues. First, it cannot be used as identification at airports, for rental cars, or in bars.

  There is a kiosk at SFO, but every time I’ve visited, it was out of order.

  Another annoyance is that it’s not integrated with Apple Wallet.

  Knowing how the government in California operates, this will likely become a money pit. They will probably abandon the project, sue IDEMIA for breach of contract (or similar reasons), and then start over.

• by overstay8930 on 12/16/23, 5:30 PM

  I'm sure once the company contracted to build this is done milking taxpayers and the contract goes to someone who isn't buddy buddy with whoever wrote the bill, it'll get integrated into Apple/Google Wallet so normal people will consider using it.

• by WhereIsTheTruth on 12/16/23, 5:41 PM

  Digital ID in a world where data privacy&sovereignty is not valued is a red flag, online tracking should be a criminal offense, just like stalking or spying on people IRL

  Until then, i'll personally won't have any kind of online/digital ID

• by alberth on 12/16/23, 5:38 PM

  Is this just ISO 18013-5 (the MDL standard many states are implementing)?

  https://www.iso.org/standard/69084.html

  Or is this something different?

• by ezxs on 12/16/23, 5:17 PM

  I got it when it was in limited beta. It's underwhelming. First problem is that it's another app on your phone instead of using the Wallet app. It's not clear why you wouldn't just use the Android/Apple app.

  The second problem is that even the SFO airport doesn't take them as legitimate IDs.

  For the folks who are worried about giving your phone to the cop - I guess I am not worried about it much. The cop has the right to lethal force and probably knows more about the situation when you are stopped than you ever will. So they take a look at your phone? I don't assume they will just take and keep it.

  If you need to call your mom, probably best not to call her when the cop is right in front of you. If you need to call your lawyer - you are permitted to do that by law. If you are Googling for what your rights are - you are doing it way too late.

• by explodes on 12/16/23, 5:08 PM

  We need data privacy protection laws _before_ implementing something like this, otherwise it is a perfect tool to be abused by overreaching government entities (law enforcement).

• by anonuser123456 on 12/16/23, 5:13 PM

  I played around with it. Not worth while at this point. Too many privacy risks (e.g. requires you hand over your phone to police unlocked).

• by kornhole on 12/16/23, 5:02 PM

  I assume the app will attempt to tie my device identifiers such as IMEI, phone number, and advertiser ID to my government digital ID. Then they can tie it to other ID's such as Facebook or other app ID's on the device that also read device identifiers. It probably would fail to install on my Graphene phone that treats all apps as hostile by blocking them from reading any device identifiers. I would rather wait with the rest of people in lines than submit to this.

• by bigmattystyles on 12/16/23, 4:55 PM

  Obligatory - do not hand your unlocked phone over to a cop