from Hacker News

New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

by orcul on 12/9/23, 5:08 PM with 155 comments

• by kylehotchkiss on 12/9/23, 6:47 PM

  Ahh New York, let me tell you how Californians get around this without needing a “fake plate”:

  * just take it off completely, who’s checking?

  * thick black plastic license plate cover. Everybody’s got them.

  * front plate optional!

  * buy one of those “digital” license plates and just set it to show the car logo instead of ID. Teslas do it!

  I’m just kidding by the way, California really needs to fix this problem too. The punishment for fake plates needs to be having the plate number ground on to your roof or something else permanent and embarrassing. Maybe welding a transponder to your engine block.

• by windows2020 on 12/9/23, 7:25 PM

  "...$2.50 that will be charged to vehicles from ride-hailing platforms such as Uber..." One simple trick can save you $12.50.

  NYC is out of control with taxes and regulations, but...

  When I lived downtown, each morning, the glass of water on my nightstand would have a little oil slick of sorts atop it. When everything was shut down at the start of the pandemic, the constant stream of vehicles stopped. My water was then clean in the morning and the sticky feeling I'd get on my hands after a walk through the neighborhood stopped too.

  I think some people are totally nuts for how much they hate cars. It's as if they don't understand life beyond the island. But it would be nice to reduce pollution there.

  I doubt they will remove the tax if the day comes where all cars are electric.

• by pxeboot on 12/9/23, 6:45 PM

  This seems like a great start, but unfortunately it will likely be so lucrative, it will make it even less politically acceptable to further reduce/ban cars in the future.

• by Racing0461 on 12/9/23, 6:45 PM

  Just like how lottery is supposed to increase funding for schools but the amount thay got brought in due to lottery was then subtracted from other sources so it was a wash.

  I'm assuming this is going to be the same thing unless it's earmarked for public transportation by law instead of going into a general fund. Just like gas tax and car tabs in other states that goes to "fixing the roads by people that use it the most".

• by up2isomorphism on 12/10/23, 5:33 PM

  It is just another killing the hen attempt to desperately cover NYC fiscal sinkhole. And bunch of people who celebrate this just have little understanding about NYC's traffic pattern.

  I did not know any people in NYC go to Manhattan using personal cars more than 5 times a year. Almost all people driving there have to drive there for the business reasons. And if they have to pay the tax it is just falls on all the people using the city's services, regardless if you drive or not. Also because of this, it will not improve the air quality because they still have to drive, and to send vital goods, providing service to the people never drives in the city. So the net effect is using tax payer's money to fund disastrous city fiscal condition which the result of corruption. BTW, we all know wandering Uber/Lyft cars are the most polluting factor these years, but the city does not want to do anything about it.

• by ydnaclementine on 12/9/23, 10:15 PM

  Let me know when the congestion toll is actually being applied. How long ago did Congress approve of removing DST? (we still have DST) I feel like I've read these "NYC approves of congestion tolls" articles 10 times in the past 4 years. Constant deja vu

• by tiffanyh on 12/9/23, 6:48 PM

  > ’The city will charge $15 to passenger cars that enter the central strip of Manhattan, $24 to vans and $36 to buses and large trucks.’

  Shouldn’t they charge progressive less the higher the occupancy is of the vehicle.

  This pricing seems backwards to me.

• by temporaldebtor on 12/9/23, 6:46 PM

  As someone who takes public transit into the city and has almost been hit by a car while walking - I support this.

  Driving comes with negative effects on others and capitalism only works when those externalities are paid by those creating them.

• by alexchamberlain on 12/9/23, 6:45 PM

  In London, we have a inner congestion zone, which is surrounded by a ultra low emission zone. The low emission zone only requires your car to be a few years old, though it has a bigger impact on vans and lorries.

• by thisgoesnowhere on 12/9/23, 6:42 PM

  Great!

• by leotravis10 on 12/10/23, 12:56 AM

  Aaron Gordon over at Vice says that NYC is going to screw up congestion pricing due to these capital projects that aren't going to be realized for years and it's basically a way to make money plus make up the debt load in the short term. https://www.vice.com/en/article/dy343y/new-york-city-is-abou...

  Related (now archived) discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37475743

• by tamaharbor on 12/9/23, 7:14 PM

  For those wanting to get from Long Island to points west without paying the extra toll… Good luck on those already congested Bronx and Staten Island highways.

• by citrusx on 12/10/23, 8:23 PM

  Keep an eye on this, because this will do nothing to lower congestion in NYC. It's purely a money grab.

  The drop in traffic that experts are expecting already happened during the Bloomberg administration, when they made most areas in Lower and Midtown Manhattan "no parking" zones, and jacked up the taxes on parking garages.

  No one drives into Manhattan unless they have to, and congestion pricing won't change the situation for those people who don't have a choice.

• by xenospn on 12/9/23, 6:40 PM

  Surprised it’s not $30 or higher.

• by Tommstein on 12/10/23, 3:00 AM

  You know what else would help with congestion? Not devoting entire lanes of half the roads to people still living in March 2020 who want to go to restaurants but not actually have to go inside the restaurants.

• by a_gnostic on 12/10/23, 3:12 PM

  With those prices, why not just turn Manhattan into an amusement park? Looks like Disney won't be competition for much longer, so now is the time for action.

• by philip1209 on 12/9/23, 6:50 PM

  As a Manhattan resident, I’m excited. There should be at least one city in the USA built for people instead of cars. I understand it’s not for everybody, but 75% of the residential space in the county is only zoned for insipid, paved single-family home suburban hellscapes. Leave one city for people who want a European-style walkable city.

• by Xeoncross on 12/9/23, 6:43 PM

  The growth of fines, licenses and taxes in the USA is substantial over the last 100 years. Very few things do not require fees these days (even visiting public lands).

• by varispeed on 12/9/23, 6:57 PM

  Now that's some gaslighting there. Congestion as in there is too many poor entering the Manhattan, so they set the fee so only those who can afford $15 can enter.

  If it was about actual congestion then the fee would be proportional to one's affluence, otherwise the rich will just come in as if nothing was imposed.

• by Ekaros on 12/9/23, 6:52 PM

  Why not just run daily lottery in previous day? With non-transferable licenses to enter. Win one and you get in, don't win one and you are barred from entering?

• by mikewarot on 12/9/23, 7:24 PM

  It seems to me that NYC has really decided they want to collapse and aren't imploding fast enough.

  There is no sane reason to deliberately devalue an urban core like this. They already face property tax collapse due to an occupancy crisis. It'll be like Gary, Indiana (just east of me) before you know it.

  If they want to encourage use of mass transit, they should to address that issue directly, rather than this self-sabotage.

• by e63f67dd-065b on 12/9/23, 7:05 PM

  I would've preferred an auction; institute a cap of x entrances/day, and run an auction the day before to efficiently allocate the limited slots to those who are most willing to pay for it. Last-minute entrants who will need to get in for whatever reason and missed the auction will pay large premium above the market clearing price.

  Given that vehicle traffic is non-uniform throughout the day, maybe it would make sense to have separate prices per hour, but there reaches a point where the marginal increase in complexity does not drive marginal improvements in allocation.

• by shipscode on 12/9/23, 6:42 PM

  This idiocy will only hurt the working class employees who drive in from the outerboros.